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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2007 :  4:22:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage
from the book, "Hypnotherapy" by Dave Elman.
Edited by Gil Boyne for brevity.

Since the early days hypnosis has worn a cloak of mysticism. The mysticism quickly disappears when you study the subject, but the name hypnosis, derived from the Greek word "Hypnos",the God of Sleep, is constantly getting in the way of a proper understanding. Hypnosis is no more like sleep than night is like day.
Once you examine hypnosis clinically, you find it doesn't look, act nor feel like you think it should. The sooner you forget your preconceived notions, the sooner you'll learn what it is, how it acts, and how you can use it in your practice.

You probably think that in a few short sessions you will become an expert hypnotist. All you can do is to show a person how to go over the hurdle from a normal waking or sleeping state into the special state of mind known as hypnosis.

Those of us who practice the art of suggestion must admit if we are honest, that we have no power. Remember the injunction: "All men are created equal." There is nothing I do that you can't do. The only difference is that I possess certain knowledge which looks magical in operation. But given that knowledge, any feat I can do, you can do. Knowledge will give you power.

When we practice hypnosis, we become in reality "hypnotic operators," or '.Dream Pilots." For a1l hypnosis, once you have taught the subject how to achieve the trance state, the subject willing, you become the one who stimulates his imagination in the hypnotic state. If you're a good dream pilot, you'll give him good dreams. It's a pleasant idea to think that you can stimulate the imagination of almost everyone, and cause pleasant thoughts above and beyond those which are usually deemed possible.

I stressed the words, "The subject willing"? That's because you cannot give a suggestion to the subject unless he is willing to respond it. At all times and in all degrees of hypnosis the subject has full and complete power of selectivity, and reacts only to those suggestions which are acceptable to him.

At this point you are probably saying to yourself, "Impossible! I saw someone hypnotized once and he did the craziest things imaginable. Don't try to tell me that if he was in his right mind, he'd do that. If he wasn't hypnotized he wouldn't have taken such outlandish suggestions." If you accept my theory of "Dream Pilot" you'll quickly agree with me. There have been times in your own life when you've had outlandish dreams. Those crazy things you saw someone do in hypnosis were merely dreams induced by an operator, and you were watching a dream in action.

Most current books on hypnosis stress the fact that the hypnotized subject is "en rapport" with the operator. They seldom add that the subject is also "en rapport" with himself, for he can give himself auto-suggestions, and anyone can give the hypnotized subject a suggestion. and if the subject wants to take it. he will take it. But if he doesn't want the suggestion, he won't take it from anyone. including the operator. Clever operators find many ways to get around these seeming paradoxes, but it is an actual fact that if you take a person who has never known the word "hypnosis" nor has heard anything about the phenomenon and induce hypnosis, he may take suggestions from anybody, unless counter-suggestions are given.

Yet, amenable to suggestion as he is, the subject, in the final analysis, is in complete control. Let me repeat: It always seems to the outsider that the operator is in control. That is a fallacy. In every stage of hypnosis the subject is in control, and it only requires a crisis to prove that point. Let the crisis arrive and the hypnotized subject will either reject the suggestion and continue in the state or he will reject the suggestion by coming out of the trance.

The subject in the trance state has complete possession of all his faculties-he can hear-think for himself-speak -see -feel -and although in many cases, he looks unconscious. he is completely aware and can cooperate. Above and beyond all this, he has, in addition, the ability to give him~ self selective awareness or unawareness at will. He can accept or reject a suggestion as he pleases.

Let's state it another way: In hypnosis, the Body and Mind go into a state in which body and mind are equally suggestible. Remember, hypnosis has an effect not only on the conscious mind. but on the unconscious mind too. It has an effect on the autonomic nervous system. Therefore, when we take a person into the suggestible state and give him good dreams, his sensations upon awaking will be physical as well as h1ental. Physically he will be refreshed and invigorated. He will have had a pleasant experience.

When you see the way people react under suggestion, then you realize that with every individual you are going to get a different reaction, and you should 'be able to respond to those reactions, and know what to do in every case.

That is why your knowledge of the subject should be complete and entire. Never be in a position where you can be taken by surprise at an individual reaction. All reactions are individual and therefore different. Maybe there will be two similar reactions, and if you hypnotize thousands of people, you will begin to categorize reactions. But there will always be people who, in the suggestible state react like no one you ever saw before. No one can learn hypnosis thoroughly by observing it on others.

You must experience it yourself to know how different it is from the things you've heard and read about it. To completely understand it you must do more than see it from the inside looking in You must also experience it from the inside looking out. You will find hypnosis a pleasant state and will probably want to try it. Instead of resisting and fighting it, as your knowledge increases and your fear decreases, and the fallacies about hypnosis are cleared up for you, you will reach the stage where you will not only want it for yourself, but you will be able to hypnotize yourself. There is no one who can't be hypnotized.

There is no such thing as you not being hypnotizable. A hypnotized person will not take a harmful suggestion. Since he can hear, and all his senses are particularly acute in the hypnotic state, the law of self-preservation governs him in it, just as it governs him out of it. That is why in the history of the world, no one has been injured by hypnosis. Writers devote reams to the moot point: Could a crime be done by hypnosis?

But it has never been done because that is the long way around to commit a crime. Hypnosis has been in the hands of charlatans, fakes, dubs, amateurs and quack" for a long, long time, but you still have to find the first documented case on record which will bear investigation, where a person in a suggestible state has hurt himself or others. You may be sure that you can't do lasting damage with hypnosis.

We have conducted thousands of tests and in all cases one of two things happen if an improper suggestion is given: The subject either terminates the trance state, refusing the suggestion that way;
or he remains in the trance state but refuses to carry out the suggestion.


Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]

Mystic8

12 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2007 :  8:47:45 PM  Show Profile
The unfortunate truth about hypnosis is, a person can commit crimes while under hypnosis. People can be told to do things that they normally would never do in their normal waking state. Many of todays hypnotism authors claim that no one would do anything under hypnosis such as crimes. This appears to be a safeguard to relax the public fears about the subject. There have been many cases of hypnotherapist engaging in unsavory activity in Europe. Cases involving sex abuse in recent years. The early writers of the subject were well aware of the fact that some subjects will do whatever they are told. They even explored psychic phenomena with amazing results. Perhaps due to fear of ridicule today's writers have completely ignored the successful experiments of clairvoyance documented by the pioneers of hypnotism.

Mystic8
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HypnoDoc

USA
364 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2007 :  10:46:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit HypnoDoc's Homepage
Mystic8,

Don't just make broad statements in here that pretend to be fact. Instead, show us some documented proof - we need to see some links to these "successful experiments" of which you speak.

I think that most people in here will agree with me when I say that both Dave Elman and Gil Boyne are very good examples of Pioneers of Hypnosis.

Give us some quotes from some of your pioneers that prove what you are saying in here, please.

I remember reading a book, years ago, from an early pioneer in psychology about how you could tell everything about people's minds from the features on their face. If their eyes were far apart they were more intelligent than someone who had eyes close together, etc. and other similar ground breaking stuff. I am sure there are very few people who would quote from that pioneer as a reference.

HypnoDoc

"Relax, Listen and ______ with Hypnosis" Audio Series.
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Mystic8

12 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2007 :  01:23:34 AM  Show Profile
Yes, no disrespect to Mr. Boyne or Mr. Elman, their contributions are great. I was refering to pioneers such as Albert Moll, published 1889, Alexander Cannon, Georges DeDubor published 1922, WM Wesley Cook M.D. published 1902, Louis Satow, published 1923 and Simeon Edmonds. These pioneers and others wrote about controversial topics such as hypnosis and psychic experiments. If you can find their books, the experiments are there. There status in hypnosis is legendary.

Mystic8
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patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2007 :  5:28:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage

Information that is "published" is not necessarily valid. Though some people are more prone to believing what they read if it is "published". Looks like critical faculty bypass to me.

If it were possible to fully control people with hypnosis, I'm sure someone would be using those techniques to provide a legitimate non-hype 100% guaranteed stop smoking. (sarcasm)

If it were possible to fully control people's thoughts, there would be a better return on advertising dollars as well.

Psychiatrists, counselors, doctors, dentists, priests, teachers, relatives, friends, parents, and shoe salesman have also been involved in unsavory activities. The one constant is that they're all human.

The idea that hypnosis is mind control is just... silly. Over time this type of mis-information will be corrected. Please look into it further via unbiased research.

Patrick Glancy
www.glancyhypnosis.com

Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com
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Mystic8

12 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2007 :  7:39:07 PM  Show Profile
If you study basic metaphysics you will find that it is very easy to control other people. That being said, many have even used distant hypnosis to control other's behavior. See Ormond Mcgill, published by Gil Boyne. Also check out Thomas J. Hudson. This is nothing new. It has been practiced for thousands of years. Perhaps you are just unaware of it.

Mystic8
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Matrixman

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2007 :  8:13:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit Matrixman's Homepage
"control" there are levels of control, in which there are degrees of compliance- as I will demonstrate- in a very basic manner- now I am going to ask you to do a number of things, one go and get a glass of water- did you do it? you have the choice, to comply or not- now I want you to not think about- not drinking water- what are you thinking about?

the thing about books that are over a 60- 80 a 100 years old- is they are not the most reliable source of data collection- I'm not saying they are not useful, just unreliable-

J

If it has consciousness it's already in a trance.
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Mystic8

12 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2007 :  8:40:58 PM  Show Profile
I look at the early information and then proceed to demonstrate it. The modern writers tend to steer away from controversy. They have to calm the public fears to earn a living at it. The early pioneers put the facts out as they were discovering them. I don't think the truth about all that can be done with hypnosis could even get published today for a mass audience. It's just too shocking for today's society. That's why the same old tired material; stop smoking, lose weight, etc. is published. The controversial phenomena would be banned today.

Mystic8
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Matrixman

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2007 :  8:59:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Matrixman's Homepage
It's just too shocking for today's society. Who says? They have to calm the public fears- They? who specifically? where is it written? How did you come to this set of conclusions? what else could it be? what specific up dated evidenced, that you can demonstrate and share to give this topic a fuller representation?

If it has consciousness it's already in a trance.

Edited by - Matrixman on 12/05/2007 9:03:29 PM
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Ron Surface

29 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2007 :  01:54:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Ron Surface's Homepage
Mystic8,
I'm not familiar with the authors you mentioned, but I have read of similar research being done into psychic phenomena. The PEARS lab at Princeton has done a lot of research into remote viewing and also the ability to use our thoughts to influence external objects. Apparently mankind does possess this ability to one degree or another.

There was a lot of interest in the former Soviet Union in investigating distant mental influence of other people. One researcher, Leonid Vasiliev, using 'highly hypnotizable' individuals was able to influence 'motor acts, visual images, sensations, and sleeping' in subjects using only his thoughts. Kind of spooky. However, it's important to realize that others have done similar research to Vasiliev's and obtained results without the use of hypnosis. It's misleading to say these subjects were influenced by hypnosis if others responded without the use of hypnosis. If mankind has psychic abilities or is subject to psychic influences, it's not because of hypnosis.

Also, there is a difference between influence and control. We are being influenced all the time - by the media, politicians, advertisers, family members and friends. It's up to us how we respond to these influences. There is nothing about taking a deep breath, imagining yourself walking down a flight of stairs, counting backwards, or any other technique employed in hypnosis that would cause someone to lose their moral sense of right and wrong, or their ability to choose. People who attend visualization or meditation classes use similar techniques, and we don't think they are in danger of being controlled.

Ron

Ron Surface
www.mindmasters.net
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HypnoDoc

USA
364 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2007 :  10:25:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit HypnoDoc's Homepage
Thank you Ron.

Welcome to the HOL forum.

HypnoDoc

"Relax, Listen and ______ with Hypnosis" Audio Series.
(MP3 Instant Download, CD, and Cassettes)
250 Scripts for Hypnosis Professionals
(All the scripts you may ever need for your practice)
quote:
"Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind." Rudyard Kipling.
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Mystic8

12 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2007 :  4:53:00 PM  Show Profile
I have several books on using hypnosis to awaken subconscious powers like clairvoyance/remote viewing. This can be done if the trance is deep enough, somnambulism. Also, telepahic hypnosis. Also the use of hypnosis to channel a different spirit entity. To play instruments unknown to the subject or to speak different languages. Automatic writing, astral projection. To heal the body. The ability to move objects without touching them. Also Edgar Cayce used trance states to diagnose disease and cures in many patients including himself. The list goes on and on. Some of it involves hypnotism plus strange invocations, especially used in India, Tibet and Africa. The forbidden knowledge of hypnosis can be found. It all depends on where you look or who you meet.

Mystic8
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Ron Surface

29 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2007 :  11:40:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ron Surface's Homepage
Mystic8,

The powers of the mind are amazing! Hypnosis is simply a tool that helps us gain greater access to our natural abilities - even psychic abilities if thats what you want. All I'm saying is you don't lose control during hypnosis. For example, you believe very strongly in your viewpoint. Do you think I could 'hypnotize' you to change it? I could attempt to persuade you, just like I'm attempting to do now, but the decision is still up to you.

If your goal is to develop psychic abilities then yes, hypnosis could probably help. That's what hypnosis does, gives us greater control over our minds - not take it away.

Ron

Ron Surface
www.mindmasters.net
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Mystic8

12 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2007 :  12:10:00 PM  Show Profile
Yes, the powers of the mind are incredible. As far a someone obeying a suggestion without resistence, it is done all the time with post-hypnotic suggestion. If a person is in a somnabulistic state, the conscious mind is in abeyance. They have surrendered control. They will do what you tell them to do. You can even plant future suggestions that they will carry out at the specified time. If you give them the signal to go into deep trance again, example such snapping your finger 3 times, they will immediately drop into trance. Are you saying they can refuse to obey the post-hypnotic signal?

Mystic8
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Ron Surface

29 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2007 :  3:22:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ron Surface's Homepage
It's like Patrick said,

quote:
Originally posted by patrickg



If it were possible to fully control people with hypnosis, I'm sure someone would be using those techniques to provide a legitimate non-hype 100% guaranteed stop smoking. (sarcasm)



People refuse to follow suggestions all the time.

Ron

Ron Surface
www.mindmasters.net
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Mystic8

12 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2007 :  5:22:56 PM  Show Profile
I guess its different for some people. According to Andrew Salter, "What is Hypnosis" published 1944, "Hypnosis is based on associative reflexes." It's like Pavlov's dog once the conditioning is set. They have no choice. He states, "Put bluntly, through hypnosis it is possible to force persons to commit crimes. Those who speak of the necessity for hypnotic suggestion to fit in with a subject's moral code should revise their concepts. As a result of hypnotic suggestion subjects have stolen money, thrown sulphuric acid into a man's face...etc."

Mystic8
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patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2007 :  10:37:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage

Mystic,

I take your comments quite seriously because at least once a week I have a new client that comes in with fears of being "under someone else's control". It makes me very sad to hear someone with experience in hypnosis furthering this outdated thinking.

I come across references such as yours relatively often. Ads to learn
"underground hypnosis" etc..

I'm always left wondering, if the advertised underground/mind-control/persuasion/covert hypnosis techniques are so powerful, how come I am not mind-controlled/persuaded/hypnotized into buying their product, let alone believe their claims?

It might be fun to talk about and scare people with, but come on... I believe most of us in here are professional hypnotists/nlp'rs who study all we can to further our profession and business.

I have never come across any teachings or experience that would lead me to believe hypnosis is ANY of the scary, fear-based things you claim.

I guess I'm personally offended.

Patrick Glancy, BCH
www.glancyhypnosis.com


Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com
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Mystic8

12 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2007 :  11:39:56 PM  Show Profile
No need for offense. There early hypnotists who have clearly demonstrated their claims with countless experiments and there are modern hypnotist who reject the early findings. The modern hypnotist is either unaware of what can be done or is in denial. There are just too many scholary works that prove the older findings are correct, not only in the US but in Germany, Russia and Paris. It is perfectly ok to tell the public that they will not do anything against their will, but there are recent court cases that say otherwise. Also, many hypnotists have been ordered by the courts in other nations to end their careers practicing hypnotherapy. Why would the court order hypnotists to stop practicing on patients if no abuse was committed? These cases are on the internet, even on this site under sexual assault.

Mystic8
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Ron Surface

29 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2007 :  5:17:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ron Surface's Homepage
Mystic,

I don't think anyone on here is in denial about the power of hypnosis. As far as rejecting the earlier findings, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't deny they happened. I just disagree with the author's conclusion as to why they happened. There is nothing about hypnosis that would cause a person to lose control.

In the book 'How To Argue And Win Every Time', Gerry Spence talks about the way our perceptions of other people influence the amount of control they have over us. He writes, "The power I face is always the power I perceive. . .Their power is my perception of their power. The source of their power is, therefore, in my mind. . .If I have endowed the Other with power that the Other does not possess, then I face my own power, do I not? My own power has become my opponent, my enemy."

You've studied metaphysics. To a large extent, our beliefs create our realities. If you believe someone has power over you then yes, they have power over you. But it's only the power you have given them. It's nothing unique about hypnosis, or nothing about hypnosis that makes you more vulnerable, it's just the way life is. It's like being in a bad relationship - They can only boss you around if you let them. A hypnotist might say "When I snap my fingers you will . . .", and it looks like he has the power to control others. But let him walk up to a group of gang members and snap his fingers, then see how much control he has. Only as much as they give him, which I imagine would be very little.

Ron

Ron Surface
www.mindmasters.net
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Mystic8

12 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2007 :  7:21:31 PM  Show Profile
True, but if he had already planted post-hypnotic suggestions in their minds, they would crawl if he says crawl. If he is an Adept or a yogi, he can control them without post-hypnotic suggestion. Adepts have psychic means of dealing with such situations. Those psychic means can be fatal for the gang members.

Mystic8
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Ron Surface

29 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2007 :  7:46:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ron Surface's Homepage
Let's just hope we haven't pissed off any Adept's then.

Take care,

Ron

Ron Surface
www.mindmasters.net
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HypnoDoc

USA
364 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2007 :  10:17:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit HypnoDoc's Homepage
I think the majority of us are done trying to communicate with you Mystic8 - it is obvious you are convinced of things we all know not to be the case. Perhaps your time would be better spent reading some more old books.

I am locking this thread and putting it out of its misery.

HypnoDoc

"Relax, Listen and ______ with Hypnosis" Audio Series.
(MP3 Instant Download, CD, and Cassettes)
250 Scripts for Hypnosis Professionals
(All the scripts you may ever need for your practice)
quote:
"Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind." Rudyard Kipling.
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