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 Hypnosis Forum
 Hypnosis General Discussion
 jonathon royle
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polar bear

24 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  10:35:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hi folks
i have visited a hypnotherapist before and at the time i felt it did benefit me. i have also been using self hypnosis with what a thought were good results. because of my interest in hypnosis i decided to look more into the subject. i came across a dvd set by jonathon royle which basically says there is no such thing as hypnosis or a hypnotic trance.it is all a con. now i am confused, has this revalation spoiled the placebo affect for me. or is self hyonosis a real thing, is it reprogramming or conditioning or a placebo.

patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  11:43:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have read information that wearing a tin foil hat will keep you protected against alien mind control. My real life experience has told me this is not likely true.

Have you seen results from your hypnosis? Have you lived those results? If your experience tells you that royle's information is wrong, then it is.

The placebo effect is well documented and is included as an aspect of medical studies. The placebo effect is the result of hypnotic principles. Authority figure, in this case.

So, to answer your question - is it hypnosis or placebo? Even if it's placebo, it is still hypnosis. And, either way, you have improvement :)




Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com
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polar bear

24 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  11:55:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
first of all thank you for the reply.
i agree the placebo affect is a powerful thing with powerful results.but i really want to know more truth about hypnosis, is just a con trick like royle suggests or is this a known and beneficial way to re-condition and re-programme the sub concious mind. are you actually reprogramming someones(or your own) sub concious mind or are they just making you beleive this is the case. i dont really care for the stage shows or the hypnotricks. what i am interested in is the effect it has on someones day to day life.
are you familair with royle?
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patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  12:03:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am not familiar with royle and it does not sound like I'd want to invest any time knowing more.

It would take some time to go into detail about hypnosis, and the different examples everyone is exposed to every single day.

I have some web pages dedicated to describing what I have learned (from others and from experience) hypnosis to be.

I think it would directly address your question.
http://www.quickhypnosis.com/reference/

If it does not, please let me know and I will go into more specific detail here.


Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com
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polar bear

24 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  12:10:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thank you
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Matrixman

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  12:18:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Matrixman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi PB

Who else have you read or heard about?

What I am saying is JR is only one person- out of "10s of 1000s" of practicing hypnotist/ hypnotherapist, are you really only going to make such a judgment basted one persons marking "ploy" and I say "ploy" because JR also sells many other products that supports the idea of hypnosis!

J

If it has consciousness it's already in a trance.
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HypnoDoc

USA
364 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  12:31:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit HypnoDoc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello,

The fact is that he doesn't actually say it is a "con." I believe what he was trying to do (besides sell a product with a catchy title) was suggest that since almost all people are in Hypnosis at various times throughout the day - it doesn't really require that much effort to get them into it. Who knows maybe he will stop in and let us know.

HypnoDoc

"Relax, Listen and ______ with Hypnosis" Audio Series.
(MP3 Instant Download, CD, and Cassettes)
250 Scripts for Hypnosis Professionals
(All the scripts you may ever need for your practice)
quote:
"Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind." Rudyard Kipling.
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polar bear

24 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  1:40:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hi
thank you again for posting that information it certainly did help. i am interested greatly in "hypnosis" and i am delighted i have stumbled upon this forum. i do think that some aspects of "hypnosis" such as stage hypnosis, hypnotricks and dual reality are just smoke and mirrors. but i do think(although i have no proffessional training) that there is some very interesting things that do seem work in a certain state of mind. i have been using self-hypnosis for about a year using a dicta phone, and along the way i have reworded my inductions and experimented with my suggestions to suit my own life. when i am in a certain state of mind and i speak to my self through a tape and it feels like my brain moves and responds to every word. i rarely use long suggestions and instead just say to myself for example you FEEL(making sure i actually feel) extremley happy and leave the state of mind with that exact feeling.this seems to last for about a week if i am relaxed and nothing too major is on my concious mind. its this conditioning and reprogramming(if that is what is happeneing)that i find really interesting and undervalued.
also on one occasion i visited a hypnotherapist and he said to me that certain people have negative feelings attached or assiocated to certain things. he seem to ask me when is was in that certain sate of mind and i told him of a negative feeling i had attached to a certain situation. now if he asked me when i was in a normal state of mind although i knew deep down about this feeling i would probably told him otherwise. he used a technique on me using my shoulders and his hand (i could go into more detail) and basically it felt like he rewired my whole brain so that when i thought about this certain situation i felt good feelings instead of the negative ones.

have you heard of this technique?

anyway when i saw this dvd with jonathon royle entitled "there is no such thing as hypnosis" it has made me doubt everything i came to know about hypnosis. he basically implies that if you can get anyone to beleive that they are hynotised (he says nobody really is)through post hypnotic suggestions and the like, then they will beleive anything including that they are being healed.
i know this is where the placebo effect comes into play and i dont for a minute doubt the power of placebo in fact that interests me greatly.

my only problem with the placebo effect is that it invovles "duping" someone into beleiving that they are being healed, obviously it could not work otherwise but surely there must be another way to use the the power of the mind/placebo effect which is more morally sound.

my questions are:

are all forms of hypnosis just the placebo effect?.

can you or do you really recondition/braiwash/brain train/programme the brain during a certain state of mind or do you just think yo do?.

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polar bear

24 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  1:46:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i live in the uk but would consider sendind this dvd pack for your opinion. are the people on this forum hypnotherapists with greater knowlegde than myself.

[Link to product sales item removed by Moderator]
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HypnoDoc

USA
364 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  1:49:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit HypnoDoc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Search is your friend. Use the search link at the top of any page to look up posts by keywords. I think you will find many of the things you are asking have been asked before and have been discussed. Feel free to find a specific thread of interest and join into the conversation if you don't find enough detail in the existing posts.

HypnoDoc

"Relax, Listen and ______ with Hypnosis" Audio Series.
(MP3 Instant Download, CD, and Cassettes)
250 Scripts for Hypnosis Professionals
(All the scripts you may ever need for your practice)
quote:
"Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind." Rudyard Kipling.
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patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  2:22:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Your perception of the placebo effect may be something to consider. As a general rule, the placebo effect is around 10%. Drug manuracturers take this into account - 10% of the people that have a positive affect from their prescription meds are probably responding to placebo. Are they being 'duped' if they have a positive effect from their med? Maybe yes, maybe no. But, if 'placebo' can fix the thing, than maybe is was 'placebo' that brought the thing about.

When contacted several weeks after the last session, 85% of my clients report improvement. That is far beyond the established number for a placebo effect. So I would say the placebo effect is a mild form of hypnosis that produces mild results. Hypnosis is NOT a form of placebo, but, placebo IS a form of hypnosis.

Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com
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Ron Surface

29 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2008 :  2:29:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ron Surface's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi PB,

Scientists have done brain imaging of people during hypnosis and there are measurable changes that take place within the brain during hypnosis. Studies at Harvard found that broken bones healed weeks faster than normal in people using hypnosis. No, it's not a con.

Although the placebo effect probably plays a part in hypnosis, I think it's more than that. There are certain techniques which are very effective at helping people overcome pain - the Elman 'induction' for instance. If hypnosis was entirely the placebo effect, it shouldn't matter what technique was used. All of them would work equally well as long as the person believed they would.

Ron

Ron Surface
www.mindmasters.net
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  06:01:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have personal knowledge of Jonathan Royale and I do not recommend him or his products.

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]
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