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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:24:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Mitch (Original Message) Sent: 3/4/2000 6:30 PM

Has anyone here done any work of a holistic nature with children with add? I could use some information if anyone would care to respond I would appreciate it very much.

Thank You in Advance

Mind, Body & Spirit


670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:24:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Mitch Sent: 4/14/2000 7:26 PM
Hello Maggie, Nice to hear from you again. I think you must really have your hands full with the children and all that you are doing with them and for them. They are indeed fortunate to have someone like you in their lives. are you getting good results with the older child? is there a large difference between children with ADD and what your children are going through? i have many questions but i do not want this to become to personal for you. If you need someone to talk to I am here for you! Mitch
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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:25:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Margaret Sent: 4/25/2000 5:51 PM

Dear Mitch

I would say the only difference between these children and those diagnosed with add is one of degree, when I first began working with the older child, she could not sit still for above 30 seconds and was extremely emotionally labile.

The changes in her have been amazing, she is still on the special needs register at school but now receives no extra help, she makes friends which she could not do before and is progressing both socially and educationally.

How much of this is due to the work with me and how much due to the help from other professionals I do not know. And to be honest it does not really matter, as long as she is making progress it's not that important to pin it down to factors x, y, or z.

Hope that is of interest, and no I don't mind talking about it, I find it really gratifying to watch these children change, no matter how big or small my part in the change process.


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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:25:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Mitch Sent: 4/27/2000 4:54 PM

Hello Maggie, Glad to hear that things with the children are progressing nicely. That is wonderful. I do think you should give yourself a little more credit though. If not for your personal strength and compassion where would the children be? Best Regards Mitch
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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:25:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Lindsay Sent: 6/1/2000 3:59 PM

I am interested in this question too. I've had some experience helping autistic kids & others with disturbed backgrounds. I have been a teacher for over 30 years so I have been involved in both sides of the situation.
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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:26:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Fraser Sent: 6/1/2000 6:48 PM

When I have worked with ADD children, I have personally found that distraction and being very indirect as a general approach is most useful. I would echo the comments made earlier about not using direct suggestions.

For me, the most consistently reliable approach has been the use of metaphor, whether using specific stories or "my friend John" anecdotes whilst playing at the same time. This needs to be tailored for the individual child, both in terms of age and individual, personal characterisatics and interests.

I hope this is useful.


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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:26:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Lindsay Sent: 6/3/2000 7:22 AM
ADD/chronic fatigue/stress - & a lot of other "modern diseases" - especially in children I feel are the direct result of poor parenting ...

especially the use of TV, video & video-games - surfing the net !!

the results are - sleep debt ..mental & emotional exhaustion.. so when kids come to school many of them can't concentrate & if they are alert they often expect to be "entertained."

Being required to actually "work" - learn something, make an effort is just too much for them.

Inadequate diet, inappropriate diet ADDs to the problem.

Adults with chronic fatigue seem to suffer from insomnia & sleep debt too.

The expectation that a pill issued by a medical practitioner will FIX the problem is a big ask. So how about a few direct/indirect suggestions about - "changing your life style & the benefits."

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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:27:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Margaret Sent: 6/3/2000 2:02 PM

This Forum is the last place that I expected to find a message such as the one above. Blaming the parents is a popular pastime from public and the media this does not make it appropriate or indeed accurate.

When we do not fully understand the mechanisms or causes of a condition it is not helpfull to start throwing blame. Schizophrenia was once blamed on dysfunctional families particularly neglecting mothers, surely nobody here would still lay the blame for this condition at the mothers door even though the mechanisms are still not fully understood.

I have four children only one of whom ever showed any symptoms of hyperactivity or ADD like behaviour, following the reasoning of the above post I must have treated her differently from the others. Amazingly enough this is the child who watches the least TV, plays the least video games and does little net surfing, the surfing she does is always with me to guide and encourage her and is generally in search of information for homework or school projects.

ADD children are those least likely to spend hours watching TV and videos, they tend to have very short attention spans and the only 'programmes' short enough to maintain their attention are adverts. They tend to be uncoordinated and easily frustrated so gain little satisfaction from video games, which often require repeated fast actions.

Diet may have a part to play in ADD for some children but research has reached no satisfactory conclusions yet.

So please, helpful suggestions not throwing blame.

In addition if suggestions about changing lifestyle were to be effective they would surely need to be made to the parents and not the child.

Margaret Hutchby


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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:27:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Lindsay Sent: 6/3/2000 3:55 PM

Just because "the media" says it's so doesn't make it an observation that should be automatically dismissed. My observation comes from many discussions with parents, students, parents.. yes, I am skeptical about "the media." I am skeptical about science & religous dogmas too. For some reason I need to say here - that "actions speak louder than words."

Are the students who play musical instruments, are heavily involved in sporting activities, learn dancing & other "cultural activites," the ones suffering from add & etc.? A lot of the kids who seem to be overloaded with extra curricular activities seem to manage everything & do well at school as well .. Is it something to do with discipline. The academic faculties were often called "disciplines" in the past.

I hope this issue stirs up some really meaningful discussion.

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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:27:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Margaret Sent: 6/3/2000 5:47 PM

Whilst there does appear to be a strong negative correlation between activities such as playing instruments, sporting activities, learning dancing and other extra curricular activities and a child exhibiting ADD type activities, a correlation does not necessarrily imply a causal relationship. Moreover if a causal relationship exists between the two factors exists the direction of this relationship is debatable and I would suggest that it is possibly in the opposite direction to that implied by your post. In other words I believe that it is more probable for ADD type behaviours to be responsible for these childrens low involvement in extra curricular activities, than for their low involvement in extra curricular activities to be a contributory factor to them aquiring ADD type behaviours.

For example children with these type of behaviours are often forbidden by teachers to take part in these activities and if allowed to try are often asked to stop after a few weeks because their behaviour is considered disruptive. One cannott blame the teacher who is trying to teach a large group of children and is prevented from doing this successfully by the behaviour of one child, but one cannott then blame these childrens non involvement for their behaviour.

On the matterr of discipline it is precisely because these children have difficulties in developing and maintaining self discipline that they often behave in an undisciplined manner. (that sounds a little garbled but I hope you understand what I mean). In addition their short attention span makes it difficult for them to engage in traditionally disciplined behaviour, they often do not fully hear, or comprehend instructions given to them. Many also display short memory spans and possible short term memory deficiencies and hence when they comprehend instructions they often forget them quickly.

Most parents of ADD children that I have come in contact with are developing strong contacts with the schools and working together to help the child achieve as much as possible. Rather than letting TV be babysitters it has been my experience that these parents spend more time with their children in an attempt to counteract the identified difficulties. In addition many parents identify problems and ask for help many years before any teachers or medical professionals are prepared to take them seriously 'he/she will grow out of it' being the professionals litany.

I personally believe there may be some sort of developmental delay for these children as their behaviour, memory and attention span would be considered normal for younger children.

And yes I too would like to see a reasoned discussion on the issues involved

Margaret Hutchby


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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:28:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Lindsay Sent: 6/3/2000 8:56 PM
Thanks for your thoughts on ADD Margaret.

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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:29:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Lindsay Sent: 6/14/2000 3:29 PM

Hi Margaret

"developmental delay"

When I was in teacher training "reading readiness" was the buzz term. Kids went into the first class with, usually an old experienced "mother hen" who supervised play, read stories, taught the kids songs & so on... what Sesame Street & other kids shows & preschools do so well now. When students were "ready"... showed that they wanted to read the books & were asking, "what's that word?" they were transferred into class 2. The Class 1 teacher over lunch would say to the class 2 teacher, "have you got space for Mary & Joe?" Nod. "OK I'll send they over this afternoon."

Kids respond to the teaching styles of `particular teachers & do better with some teachers more than others. Kids may listen to their peers, friends, coach, teacher & not to parents. Often the difficult child turns out to be the most interesting adult. If you are forced to eat when you are not hungry how are you going to enjoy & relish the experience. "Eat your spinach it is good for you." .. Do you eat spinach when you don't have to? "You must learn to read, it's good for you!" There is a confusion about learning & entertainment. Learning is not always fun & it doesn't have to be fun either.

Readiness & rapport are essential to any learning experience.Gil Boyne often says, "are you ready to go into hypnosis?" before inductions. Before a race the starter says, "ready...
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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:29:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Margaret Sent: 6/16/2000 5:10 AM


What an interesting post, I remember the concept of reading readiness it seems to have gone out of fashion, the emphasis on testing appears to expect all children to have grasped ceertain concepts at preset age levels. I tend to think that this is a backwards step.

I would agree that reading readiness is essential to the childs progress, for my youngest daughter this did not come untill she was 9 years old, then within 3 months she went from a non reader to an advanced reader, she is 12 now and loves to read especially newspapers and text books (preferrably psychology or hypnosis which she finds fascinating).

However she does still appear to be exhibiting behaviour more suitable to a younger child in some areas of her life, she is emotionally labile and easily confused. When she was assessed 2 years ago by the local childrens psychiatric service their main concern was that behaviourally and emotionally she presented like a much younger child and they wanted to assure themselves that I was aware of this and did not allow her the same freedoms that one might normally allow to a child of her age.

My interest in add and learning disabilities stemmed initially from my daughters problems but was fostered by the education module I took during my psychology degree. I find your ideas very interesting and look forward to more input from you


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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:29:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Lindsay Sent: 6/16/2000 7:52 AM

Thanks Margaret

We are going to China via Singapore tomorrow morning until the end of the month so will post some more stories when I get back.

I drafted one about Sam [autistic] but it somehow disappeared.

I am sceptical about psychology & the scientific method especially in western education. Recently one of my taiji students - radiologist with a degree in psychology said the local head of orthopedics told him that 50% of what he had learned as a young doctor 40 years ago was was now considered bad practice.

There was an article in the Courier Mail, Brisbane today about Year 1 students being traumatised after a drill to prepare them for a crisis situation involving firearms & supervised by a psychologist. What clown came up with that idea!! The damage may stay with some of those kids for years. My father used to say, "the twig bent when young."

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670 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:30:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From: Irene Hickman, D.O. Sent: 6/21/2000 11:02 AM

We have had some success--but not 100%--using remote depossessiom with ADD children. My book, "Remote Depossessiom" describes the procedure. We also give training--usually at my home in Kirksville, MO. For more informatio email me docirene@socket.net.
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