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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:58:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: Davidcharles (Original Message) Sent: 4/13/2000 11:00 AM

Hello America!

My name is David Charles. I practise Ericksonian in Richmond. Surrey.

I started a community here a while ago, but not a single personhas joined me! Typical of the British. Not gregarious like you over the pond....

Hypnotherapy isn't very popular yet in the UK. I can't believe that anyone could make over 90.000usdpa! Not here, no way.

We hate to pay for any kind of treatment. The National Health Service is SUPPOSED to look after us. Go to a GP and he can only give you three minutes. Just enough time to write a prescription for a few pills...True if you have a Life Threatening Ailment, you get everything (well almost) that you need. But Mental Problems?Pills...Pills...Pills. No time to listen to your problem just PILLS!

Love hear from anyone doing the business.

Regards, David (Manager Hypnosis UK Community)

ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:58:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: hypnoscot Sent: 5/2/2000 8:31 PM
Hi

Thanks Hypnoman for your support with regards to Stage Hypnosis. My shows are always good, clean, light hearted fun and do not give the industry a bad name whatsoever, just as I believe yours are. Laughter is one of the best forms of therapy and stage shows certainly do lift the moods of the audience.

I'm confident Stage Hypnotists/ Hypnotherapists and also those who work solely within therapy can contribute a great deal towards bringing Hypnosis into the 21st century in the U.K. educating the general public and making them aware of the true potential of the sub-conscious mind. I'm sure if we all work together, no matter what our backgrounds we will achieve this.

We are usually trailing the U.S. in regards to technology and trends, so if that's anything to go by, be prepared for a boom within the hypnosis industry very soon!

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:58:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: Davidcharles Sent: 5/6/2000 10:26 AM

Dear Hypnoscot/Hypnoman,

I am sure that you are both very responsible Stage Hypnotherapists.However, I wonder if you would tell me of any other Therapy that is used for Entertainment rather than Healing purposes?

I still feel that the spectacle of people acting-the-fool whilst in trance is quite distasteful and counterproductive........

davidcharles

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:59:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: Hypnoman Sent: 5/6/2000 5:42 PM

Hi David,

I for one, respect your opinions as a professional hypnotherapist.

However I feel I need to clarify one or two points. As you are aware from my previous postings I am a professional hypnotherapist as well as being a professional stage hypnotist.

David . . . the two are completely different. In your posting you mention 'stage hypnotherapy'. Therapy on stage is banned under the1952 Hypnotism Act so I prefer to be known in that context as a STAGE HYPNOTIST.

As a hypnotherapist you will no doubt be aware that hypnosis is a natural state of mind and as such is the individuals to use as they wish, whether this is for therapeutic benefit or for entertainment should be decided by each individual. This country still has the right of 'free speech' and to a limited capacity free choice - or it did the last time I looked. As a retired film director I hope you understand this more than anybody else.

Lets face it, people make a fool of themselves on a regular basis, whether through hypnosis or not!! Would you say that those fun loving people who go into a pub, sing a song on the karaoke machine when they can't sing, making a fool of themselves in the process are doing something that's distasteful?

Those attending hypnosis shows know what they are going for and still they choose to go. David, can you explain to me why this is so?

Finally, in answer to your question of therapy being used for entertainment rather than healing purposes . . . . No therapy is being used for entertainment!!

As previously mentioned they are two different things. Stage hypnosis is the use of hypnosis for entertainment, (by the way, it's thanks to stage hypnosis that we even have hypnotherapy as we enter the 21st century). Hypnotherapy is therapy using hypnosis.

The common denominator is HYPNOSIS.

Best regards David, Hypnoscot and all. I'm sure this posting will rattle a few cages.

HYPNOMAN

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:59:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: hypnoscot Sent: 5/7/2000 6:01 PM

Hi David

Please don't take this the wrong way but with all due respect, you seem to be rather narrow minded to be assistant manager of this community. I couldn't have put what hypnoman said in the last message any better myself- 100% accurate.



WHERE WOULD WE ALL BE WITHOUT STAGE HYPNOSIS?- this is what has generated an interest in the subject - if you can "make" someone do something bizarre or funny, surely you can "make" them stop smoking or be more confident. That is how, in my experience, the general public see hypnosis and they come to this conclusion themselves. Most people know therapy and stage are two entirely different things and as Hypnoman said, it is illegal to perform therapy at a show. You are not giving people enough credit. Do you honestly think someone will be weary about visiting a therapist in fear of coming out of the consulting room as ELVIS. People who VOLUNTEER for a stage show also WANT to be hypnotised and it is made clear from the start of the show that you CAN NOT "make" people do anything against their morals or values.



I do realise however, there may be some unethical "cowboy" Stage Hypnotists going around, tarnishing the industry. What about the unprofessional therapists, who may not be good at what they are doing and giving hypnosis a bad name. Have you thought about that? It does work both ways.

I know, judging by your strong viewpoint on the subject, what I have said here will probably make no difference, but I had to get it off my chest and hope it gets you thinking more about the subject!


Best Regards

Hypnoscot

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  10:59:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: hypnoscot Sent: 5/7/2000 6:15 PM

P.S. With regard to the "pills" comment. We should be known as "complimentary therapists" and have to be careful not to come across as "alternative". We are not miracle workers and in quite a lot of cases, medication is also essential! If we go around querying what doctors have prescribed - they will not refer their patients to us and we could also do more harm than good.


Yes there may be certain cases where hypnosis can help and patients could stop taking prescribed medication, but this should also be agreed by the doctor and is not for us to comment.

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  11:00:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: Davidcharles Sent: 5/10/2000 2:33 AM

Hello again fellas,

Of course I am well aware that no Therapy is taking place or intended to take place on Stage......In haste I typed Hypnotherapy instead of Hypnosis.

But as for Stage Hypnosis being responsible for the very existance of Hypnotherapy in the UK today! What a load of xxxx.

And are you REALLY saying that people that you have made jump around the stage say....like a.....Kangaroo - come to you afterwards with "Because you can make me do THAT, you must be able to stop me smoking". I am prepared to believe that one sad soul may have done so. But as a general rule ?. I don't think so my friends.

Sorry but I see no good whatsoever coming out of Stage Hypnosis accept a good living for the Hypnotist. I could go down that road but I value the reputation and theraputic value of Hypnosis far too much, I am afraid.

Incidentally, your apparent admiration for the brilliant Paul McKenna MUST Surely be marred if what I read about his TV activities in New York is true - Making women have orgasms whilst in trance!!!! Did he REALLY stoop SO low?. Perhaps someone will tell me.

Well, I think we have said enough on this subject don't you?

Any OTHER cats to put among the pidgeons?.

David

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  11:00:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: inducerman Sent: 5/11/2000 7:44 AM

Dear David

sorry but I cannot keep quiet any longer!! You may have found finding work as a hypnotherapist quite easy,there in richmond ,I, and I know many others,have found that being a hypnotherapist you get a lot of doors shut in your face,especially from the medical side of the population.You should know about this,as your comments about the NHS,and how hypnosis is not regularly accepted in the UK compounded this.

I agree Paul Mckenna is pathetic, but surely living in stuck up UK,he goes a long way to providing experience with hypnosis,aswell as a source of information,for those who didnt know anything about hypnosis before,I feel that he is a long way responsible,for getting hypnosis,recognised more in the UK.

I have to agree with the others,all hypnosis is self hypnosis,and if people feel fine acting like elvis on stage,thats great!! its their choice,nobody has forced them to do anything.

With the greatest respect, lighten up,we are all in this together,and any more recognision of hypnosis as long as it is legal,or fun, has to help us all, to getting our feet further into doors that were otherwise closed to us.

inducerman

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  11:00:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: Davidcharles Sent: 5/11/2000 9:08 AM

OK a final FINAL word about Stage Hypnosis.....

My concern is not for those who wish to be subjected to S.H. as I know they are not forced into it and it is said to be harmless.

It is the way a beautiful Tool for Healing is being used as 'Entertainment'. Thus giving the wrong impression of Hypnosis.

The General Public, I fear,are simply not in a position to make the distinction between what they see happening On Stage and what we are able to help them achieve in the Consulting Room.

Stage Hypnotists will deny this, but then they would wouldn't they...

As far as Paul McKenna 'helping the industry' is concerned. Well honestly. My 'ghast is flabbered' by such statements. He does NOTHING unless it brings in loads-a-money......come on fellas be real.

Finally, is there any record of Dr Milton Erickson having performed 'On Stage' for the amusement of the punters?. I think not.

I rest my case.

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  11:01:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: hypnoscot Sent: 5/11/2000 11:38 AM

Just one final statement from me in this rather heated discussion! David, it's not just Stage Hypnotists like Paul McKenna who are in it for the money!! Wake up! We all need money to survive, including hypnotherapists. Yes, you may be retired but there are many others out there who rely solely on hypnotherapy as their main income. Are you trying to say that you treat your clients FREE OF CHARGE.- I don't think so!

Also as a retired film director, weren't you paid a substantial amount of money instructing people to act "out of character" and doing things out of the ordinary. Sounds familiar, doesn't it. I rest my case! (then again, maybe you were directing wildlife programmes or cartoons)



Hypnoscot

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  11:01:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: Hypnoman Sent: 5/11/2000 4:28 PM

Hi David and Hypnoscot and welcome Inducerman,

I would like to thank everybody for their opinions which have been posted here.

It is obvious that David is so set in his ways that he will not even look at issues with an open mind - I wonder if his films were ever biased???

I notice how he keeps wanting to get the last word in 'a heated debate'. Well fellas, lets call it a day - we could be carrying on this subject without resolution for years.

Let's show our maturity and finalise the debate here and now. If you want to correspond privately you've got my email address.

Many thanks for making this debate lively.

Best Regards,

Hypnoman

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  11:01:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: inducerman Sent: 5/12/2000 8:13 AM

Hi guys

have it your way,sorry I came in on the discussion too late.

speak to you all again, hopefully!!!!

next time,lets get something we can all agree on, so we can pick up Ideas from each other.

The real world needs therapy!!! its a dirty job,but we are all capable of doing it !! Have you all read the books on remote depossession,by Irene hickman? WOW, fantastic. look them up!!

inducerman

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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2003 :  11:02:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From: ellen Sent: 7/22/2000 6:41 AM

David, David, David, why are you so cynical? Does it come from living and working in the South of England (too close to London, actually)? I disagree that the British are loathe to pay for medical treatment, and especially not when it comes to alternative therapy. I've seen it from both sides. I'm an American, but live and work in Britain. I've lived in London, and I now live in Leeds. My hypnotherapy practice is quite successful up here. As for the making money side of things (you say, unlike the Americans who can make 90K/year), was that your main reason for becoming a hypnotherapist? If so, then what you need to do is write commercial "how-to" books, give lectures, appear on television, and the like. That's where the money is. Unless you want to charge clients large fees. Remember, "What the mind can conceive, the mind can achieve." Thus it is in life. Bye for now.
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n/a

162 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2003 :  5:14:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi
Lets have a debating society
Keep it up
Mike
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2004 :  11:35:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
To my colleagues and friends in the UK, I began my career as a hypnotherapist in 1956 amd in 1960 I became a stage hypnotist
After three years of moderate success in night clubs, I realised that my true preference was to be an educator (hypnotherapist) rather than an entertainer. After thirty-seven years as a therapist and director of America's largest Hypnotherapy Training Institute (in Los Angeles), I moved to London (1996)and immediately began teaching Hypnotherapy courses and working privately with clients. I remained in London for seven years and all aspects of my hypnotherapy activities flourished. The UK is a fertile ground for both hypnotherapy and Stage Hypnosis. There are numerous training Institutes and hundreds of Hypnotherapists earning a living. The problem with many aspiring hypnotherapists is two-fold. 1] Superfical and inadequate training where they are told they will begin earning large incomes immediately upon receiving their "Diploma".2}Because of this they are unwilling to make the sacrifice of struggling for the first few years,(two to 4 years), as is necessary in starting any new service business. As to Paul McKenna, I have never met him, but his many years of stage shows and media coverage have introduced more people to hypnosis than any other single person in th e UK.
His tremendous success in earning an extraordinary income requires years of building a career and a creative team to market the talent.
I suspect that some of his critics and complainers are suffering from a severe case of ENVY. With Respect to All, Gil Boyne

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]

Edited by - mark-gil on 02/05/2006 6:18:32 PM
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2004 :  1:44:25 PM  Show Profile  Click to see anthony's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Just came across this thread, very interesting, I hope it continues in the same vein, since nobody has insulted anyone in spite of differing opinions....Since all opinions are based on personal experiences, that is as it should be. I was always against stage hypnosis, until I met some very ethical practitioners, who did indeed offer a tasteful presentation....
As for income, which was mentioned, it depends in both cases on the person, not the career choice. I know of stage performers who have spent their first million, and are working on the second so to speak, and I know of others who make a very megre living from their efforts.....Just a matter of business accumen I suspect, and the same applies to the therapy aspect. Some of the members of HSA of which I am a life member, charge high fees for their services, and get refferals from the medical profession, while others find, as was suggested, the door shut in their faces.. However, with the problems of obesity getting greater each year, those who choose therapy and deal with obesity, can command a very large income if they know how to deal with clients successfully, and if they don't they shouldn't be practising......Prospects for the therapist could easily amount to as much as $300,000.00 gross yearly, and after taxes and expenses, this would still leave a very healthy and above average income for just a few hours each day......Therapy also means that a continual stream of clients is available to the best, coming from the recomendations of clients, thus saving advertising dollars....
As far as the UK is concerned, you have much more freedom that we have in the Americas. I understand, you can function freely in any part of the UK, while we can only function it two Provinces in Canada, and very few South of the Border in the US......I hope this is helpfull to future discussion, since I have no axe to grind, I was in practise for twenty one years, and am now retired and enjoying life without work (G) Anthony......
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2004 :  3:14:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Anthony,

You wrote," I am now enjoying life without work" after your career as a hypnotherapist. The "work" as you call is my life. A Psychologist might label me as a "workaholic" but their labels are often without meaning. I consider hypnotherary far more of an "art"
than a science and in fifty years of practice and teaching, I consider myself as a virtuoso artist. I am in my latter years (80) and mentally-emotionally-and spiritually, I have never been better.
The body has suffered the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune"
and I go to bed earlier and sleep a little longer. The greatest thrills of my life have been the day-to-day witnessing of Personal Transformation and I know that it can only occur through the Grace of God.

With Respect to All,
Gil Boyne

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2004 :  6:24:26 PM  Show Profile  Click to see anthony's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Hi Mark, don't misunderstand my post. I retired from practise some fifteen years ago, for personal reasons I might add, but still retained as I do today, a keen interest in the advances made and in my first love "research". However, I state I have no axe to grind, because I don't do trainings, I have no worries about competitors etc, I just enjoy what I do, when I choose to do it, without regard to the monetary aspect. Indeed, my whole life was based on enjoying what I did, even when I did it profesionally, and money always rolled in when needed.....Of course you have me beat in age slightly since I am only seventy five, seventy six come November, but my very close friend, whom we call Mr Hypnosis of Alberta, is in his eighties and still attends meetings, though like myself is no longer active.....Anthony
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2004 :  2:45:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Peter,

I understand and share your love for and devotion to
our wonderful profession. When I began my professional career in 1954, hypnosis was a dirty word. Psychotherapists opposed the use of hypnosis (Freud had abandoned it for free association) and there were no textbooks, no schools and no practitioners, not even a home study course! The very mention of the word "hypnosis" brought replies such as, "Oh that's dangerous" or " I'm not letting anyone take over my mind" or "Hypnosis is the work of the devil, the Bible tells us so" (false) As a youngster I had seen my uncle, who was a famous magician and stage hypnotist, put my mother and father into a trance and from that moment on, I knew I had to learn to hypnotize. I guess that was the moment my subconscious made the decision to lead me to this career. I have worked with many thousands, trained many thousands, written a best-selling textbook, circled the world five times, had more than 200 television interviews and given classes in eleven countries. Through the Grace of God and my personal devotion to the work, my early vision has become a glorious reality. I feel a special connection to the "old Timers” in this work because we created a new helping profession which is now a world wide phenomenon.

With Respect,
Gil Boyne

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]
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n/a

162 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2006 :  4:58:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And life goes on
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