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mrskatelongley

1 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2007 :  1:36:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been under in 5 sessions now and absolutely love it! Could I be an addict? I am usually under for about an hour or so and just have a nice long rest, more refreshing that a day at the spa. Like 10 hours of sleep in a single hour. The guy who puts me under is just the teenage son of a friend of mine (I am married mom in mid-30s). He is a very odd kid, lots of black clothes, unusual hats and very overweight but he has a soothing and calm presence and voice. Of course, he is very amateur. Are there dangers I am not aware of? Should i stop? Honestly, I am not sure that I could...Please reply here or on yahoo chat (mrskatelongley) please.

fhd

1 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2007 :  11:02:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit fhd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A lot of people who lead stressful lives can become perhaps over relient on hypnosis, although I wouldn't call it an addiction. When our lives are particularly stressful, or we suffer from anxiety, hypnosis can be an oasis of tranquility and relaxation for the time that we experience it, especially if this involves visiting a therapist at their location, because it takes us out of our otherwise busy and stressful routine.

Whilst under hypnosis, we are extremely succeptible to suggestion. That's what makes it work for so many issues. That succeptability could theoretically be detrimental if your friend is inexperienced. Maybe he uses scripts in which case you should ask to see them, so that you know exactly what is being said to you. There are many techniques that we can use to minimise the dangers of inexperienced therapists saying the wrong thing inadvertantly; for example, simply including the words "Only those suggestions that are for your own benefit will be accepted and acted upon by your subconscious mind".

I would always advise using a therapist who has undergone some kind of training. It sounds as though your friend may be using you to get experience, which is no bad thing in itself, because that's what makes us better. Nonetheless, maybe try an experienced hypnotherapist or a CD. I hope this helps.
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2007 :  1:14:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Since you raise the question of addiction,let me draw some parallels. Many men (and women)
arrive home from work and immediately fix their martinis or margaritas or other alcoholic libations in order "to relax" and discharge accumulated stress. Others are "popping pills" (uppers and downers") in order to "feel good".
Since the ONLY automatic effect of hypnotic trance is the discharge of mental, physical and emotional tensions, why have any concern?
However, as an instructor in hypnosis/hypnotherapy for more than fifty years, I am concerned that you permit an untrained teen-ager to take charge of your subconcious mind. Certification by the American Council of Hypnotist Examiners requires 350 hours of contact
(in classroom)hours with a state approved instructor. Anyone can learn to induce a trance in just a few hours. Please excercise great caution in this matter.

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]
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Colindn

United Kingdom
12 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2007 :  09:44:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Now I'm confused. I've read many times that statements like "The hypnotist controls your mind", "Hypnosis is dangerous" and "A hypnotist can make you do things you don't want to do" are false and constitute a small selection of the many myths hypnotherapists have made efforts to dispell for decades. Yet you show concern that this person permits a teenager "to take charge of your subconcious mind".
Can a hypnotist take charge, i.e. control, a persons mind or not? My tendancy is towards 'Not', therefore I wonder if you could clarify your concern Gill.

Further, I am curious as to why a persons age would have anything to do with their abilities, particularly when it seems the suggestions given are merely for relaxation. Wasn't Milton Erickson only 16 when he began experimenting with the auto hypnotic experience?

Edited by - Colindn on 04/21/2007 10:11:13 AM
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2007 :  11:14:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Colindn,Perhaps "take charge of" is too strong a phrase--would you settle for "a potential for creating a powerful interpersonal influence?" This depends upon many factors--conscious and subconscious transference, hope of solving problems, need to surrender to an authority figure/force and many others.I must disagree that youthful enthusiasm, curiousity and inexperience are equal to specialized training by a mature person planning a life career. Actually, the development of trance is harmless in itself but it can open the door for repressed emotions and highly emotional reponses to occur spontaneously. Herein lies the rub! How does the untrained, inexperienced "hypnotist cope?
The statements that all hypnosis/hypnotherapy is harmless is a defense mechanism used by hypnotists against the familiar question, "but, isn't it dangerous?" Agreed, the potential for "harm" is small" but it does exist. The hypnotist does not have to plan harmful sequalae, they can and do occur.
As the founder and director of the American Council of Hypnotist Examiners,( since 1980) an international organization with more than 12,000 members, I have handled numerous complaints and appeared as an expert witness in several lawsuits involving hypnotherapists.
My professional history and achievements are a matter of record--
please visit gil-boyne.com for further information.
Now that you have revealed more of your personal history, I have a greater understanding to your personal sensitivity..

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]

Edited by - mark-gil on 04/21/2007 11:30:32 AM
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Colindn

United Kingdom
12 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2007 :  8:28:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agreed Gil.

But I'm afraid I must correct you, I did not state that "youthful enthusiasm, curiousity and inexperience are equal to specialized training by a mature person planning a life career", I said "I am curious as to why a persons age would have anything to do with their abilities", which is somewhat different. My point being that I have had the distinct pleasure of meeting some highly intelligent and quite mature youths and the displeasure of coming across well read adults with not a jot of common sense, an over inflated ego, and all to often a very undesirable attitude towards other less qualified than themselves.
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2007 :  11:27:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Colindn, You are the winner. I defer to your superior morality, ethics, sensitivity and defense of all young underdogs.
I have nothing more to add.
Gil Boyne

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]
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Colindn

United Kingdom
12 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2007 :  3:25:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How very disappointing. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.
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patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2008 :  09:50:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage  Reply with Quote

I don't think there is a definitive answer for you. Is it good or not. It is not in itself bad. It is calming. Good to reduce blood pressure and pulse. Good for managing situational stress. It can also be used to escape or avoid emotions a person should be addressing in some way, which would not be as helpful. I think the feeling hypnosis can provide could be addicting just as any other method a person may use to mentally escape their life for a short time.

Hypnosis is just a tool to use. What are you doing with it?

Patrick Glancy, BCH
www.glancyhypnosis.com

Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com
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freddy

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2008 :  05:46:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Colindn

Now I'm confused. I've read many times that statements like "The hypnotist controls your mind", "Hypnosis is dangerous" and "A hypnotist can make you do things you don't want to do" are false and constitute a small selection of the many myths hypnotherapists have made efforts to dispell for decades. Yet you show concern that this person permits a teenager "to take charge of your subconcious mind".
Can a hypnotist take charge, i.e. control, a persons mind or not? My tendancy is towards 'Not', therefore I wonder if you could clarify your concern Gill.

Further, I am curious as to why a persons age would have anything to do with their abilities, particularly when it seems the suggestions given are merely for relaxation. Wasn't Milton Erickson only 16 when he began experimenting with the auto hypnotic experience?

In a somnambulistic trance a hypnotist can make you do things you would not want to do. In a post I've put on stating some of the things Ive done I would not have normally done them. If I was paid a million pounds I would ,but then how do you define what you would not normally do? I am sure if most people were given a knife and told to stab someone to death they would be shocked out of the trance. For hypnotherapy you do not need somnambulism,because in a light trance you can access your subconcious mind whilst remaining concious. There are men in prison for having sex with girls they were supposed to be just giving hypnotherapy and the girls did not discover until later.
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yolanda7g

3 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2008 :  1:50:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by patrickg


I don't think there is a definitive answer for you. Is it good or not. It is not in itself bad. It is calming. Good to reduce blood pressure and pulse. Good for managing situational stress. It can also be used to escape or avoid emotions a person should be addressing in some way, which would not be as helpful. I think the feeling hypnosis can provide could be addicting just as any other method a person may use to mentally escape their life for a short time.

Hypnosis is just a tool to use. What are you doing with it?

Patrick Glancy, BCH
www.glancyhypnosis.com



well for me it's just recreational. I became fascinated with it and decided to try it out. I mean I don't have any problems in my life that i need "solving" with hypnosis. Possibly i could improve some skills, but for the most part, I'm doing it for fun...to de-stress, to see where my imagination can take me through hypnosis (in order to improve my writing AND to have fun). I dunno, i'm just really intrigued by it and I love doing it.
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patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2008 :  10:23:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
yolanda,
Sounds pretty safe :)
Patrick

Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com
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HypnoDoc

USA
365 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2008 :  01:59:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit HypnoDoc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
There are men in prison for having sex with girls they were supposed to be just giving hypnotherapy and the girls did not discover until later.

OK Freddy - What men and where are they in prison? Please give exact references for your claims here.

HypnoDoc

"Relax, Listen and ______ with Hypnosis" Audio Series.
(MP3 Instant Download, CD, and Cassettes)
250 Scripts for Hypnosis Professionals
(All the scripts you may ever need for your practice)
quote:
"Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind." Rudyard Kipling.
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freddy

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2008 :  08:46:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am not making this up. I remember some years ago on a tv news bulliton a rogue hypnotherapist was covicted. Two girls he was treating were put in a somnambulistic trance and he had sex with them videod it which was used as evidence in court. It also said the girls did not know and were upset when they were shown the video. Just surfing the web for hypnotism I've found articles in American newspapers about hypnotists. You must obviously know SOMNAMBULISM is a totally different thing to hypnotherapy because the subject loses conciousness. I first discovered this when I saw a demonstration on the television some years ago. A young girl was in the studio and a hypnotist spoke a trigger to her. Instantly the expression on her face changed, the facial moscles relaxed, her eyes were still open and he took a fold of skin on her hand and passed a needle through it. She did not flinch at all. Of course it would take several sessions to achieve this.
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freddy

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2008 :  08:51:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind-Rudyard Kipling.................I like Jungle book too
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patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2008 :  10:34:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
freddy,

It sounds like most of your education on hypnosis and somnambulism come from the media. Not a very balanced diet. Believe it or not, you were in a state of hypnosis (suspended disbelief) while watching your TV. For someone to 'not remember' what happened, it is more likely they were drugged.

Regarding your experience - who knows. A suggestion, while someone is in somnambulism, still has to deal with currently held beliefs and behaviors. Beliefs and behaviors are in the subconscious, not conscious.

The most common comment a new hypnosis client has is "I remember everything". Even when testing shows they were in somnambulism.

All of this is irrelevant, of course, if the person being hypnotized is using some medications or has organic mental issues.

Patrick Glancy, BCH
www.glancyhypnosis.com

Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com
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HypnoDoc

USA
365 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2008 :  1:55:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit HypnoDoc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
I am not making this up.

Well that certainly clarifies that.
quote:
I remember some years ago...

So this is all based on YOUR memories. Yet you claim your memories are vague and have been altered by something that is NOT Hypnosis. Yet your whole point in here is to try to convince people Hypnosis is dangerous.

If this is your opinion then state it as such; if you want this to be taken as fact then show us the proof and not just some rambling thoughts as they flow out of your mind.

I think we may have heard enough from you.

HypnoDoc

"Relax, Listen and ______ with Hypnosis" Audio Series.
(MP3 Instant Download, CD, and Cassettes)
250 Scripts for Hypnosis Professionals
(All the scripts you may ever need for your practice)
quote:
"Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind." Rudyard Kipling.
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2008 :  7:22:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well Done, Hypno-Doc!

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]
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freddy

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2008 :  09:06:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hypnodoc is putting words in my mouth here. I did not say hypnosis was dangerous I'm saying it is possible to be made to do something you would not normally do so it is important to trust the hypnptist. I would like to quote from a book entitled Medical and dental hypnosis by John Hartland BSc,MB,ChB,MRCS,LRCP, President of the British society of medical and dental hypnosis. Page 150 somnambulism. This is generally considered to be one of the deepest stages of hypnosis and one of the most reliable tests of this condition is to cause the subject to open his eyes without awakening from the trance. He will be able to talk and to walk about whilst still remaining deeply hypnotized and will be able to carry out all the suggestions made him by the hypnotist, to establish major anaesthesia to pain and to produce complete amnesia for the events of the trance state. Turn to page 158.In the lighter hypnotic stages the memory is usually unaffected.During this trance the subject will remember everything of which he was conscious in everyday life,and when it is terminated he recollect accurately averything that has happened during his hypnosis. In the deeper hypnotic states however,it is a very differnt matter.There is frequently a complete amnesia upon awakening,and the subject is astonished to hear what he has actually been doing during the trance
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patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2008 :  3:26:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
freddy,
I read a book where a girl ate some stuff then got really small and fell into a rabbit hole. This did not agree with my other experiences in reality, so I did not believe it.

Could someone delete this guys account or/and posts?

Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com
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Ron Surface

29 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2008 :  4:01:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ron Surface's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Freddy,

On p.IX in the introduction of 'Hypnotherapy', Dave Elman wrote the following, "As a practitioner employing this tool (hypnosis), all you can ever do is to show a patient how to go over the hurdle from a normal waking or sleeping state into the peculiar state of mind known as hypnosis. You won't hypnotize him; he will hypnotize himself. This means that those of us using suggestion wield no "power" over any subject."

On page X he states, "You cannot impart a suggestion unless the subject is willing to take it. At all times and in all degrees of hypnosis, the subject has complete power of selectivity. He therefore reacts only to suggestions that are reasonable and pleasing to him." Dave is widely considered one of the greatest hypnosis teachers of all time. He not only worked with somnambulism, but with even deeper states of hypnosis, such as the Esdaile state.

During hypnosis, we can exercise an enormous amount of control over our body and our mind. The hypnotist is not controlling the person, but has simply helped them enter this state of mind. For instance, if during a stage show a hypnotist tells a participant that their chair is becoming hot and the person responds, it looks as if they've lost touch with reality. They haven't. They've simply entered a state of mind where they can control their sensory perceptions. Just as we can make ourselves feel pain that isn't there during hypnosis, we can make 'real' pain go away. We can taste a lemon that isn't there or change our perception of how a real lemon tastes - or change our perception of how an onion tastes. We can also make ourselves feel heat that isn't there. All of this just demonstrates how much control we actually have over our own mind and body.

In your quote form John Hartland's book, yes, we can achieve anesthesia and maintain the state of hypnosis even with the eyes open. This doesn't mean the person has lost control. Just the opposite. It shows how much control they actually have. It's the same with our memories. We can often remember things that are long 'forgotten' or choose not to remember things we would normally know. This demonstrates how much control we have over our memories. But still, the person accepts the suggestion only if they want to. They are not being controlled.

I think most hypnotists would disagree with Hartland that somnambulism or deep levels of hypnosis in itself causes amnesia. Although it may occasionally happen, I think it's the exception rather than the rule.

Hope this helps,

Ron

Ron Surface
www.mindmasters.net

Edited by - Ron Surface on 08/01/2008 7:10:02 PM
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freddy

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2008 :  03:42:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by patrickg

freddy,
I read a book where a girl ate some stuff then got really small and fell into a rabbit hole. This did not agree with my other experiences in reality, so I did not believe it.

Could someone delete this guys account or/and posts?

So anyone who does not share your point of view should have their posts taken off the forum,thats a good idea. It would make for a slightly one sided discussion though.and textbooks written by highly qualified people are Alice in Wonderland OK. I think I smell a whiff of bigotry here.
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patrickg

USA
724 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2008 :  09:33:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit patrickg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
freddy,
I don't see where the discussion is. You did not respond to my earlier, more balanced response..

You are pushing your opinion based on a single questionable experience. You support your stance by quoting a single book originally written 42 years ago.

You are working hard to prove a point in front of an audience that knows better. Call it bigotry if you want. I'd call it tolerance at this point.

You ignore and argue with people who have much more expansive experience and education with hypnosis. People who make a living with hypnosis.

A fairly reliable test for somnambulism is suggested amnesia. Not everyone achieves amnesia, even if other tests for somnambulism pass. It is by no means automatic or spontaneous. Additionally this is extremely unlikely to happen with anyone who does not agree to attempt the process of hypnosis.

I sympathize with the story you told in your 'somnambulism' post. Though unusual, I don't know enough about it to discredit it. But, if there are more possible explanations for the events, you might consider looking into those.

Patrick Glancy, BCH
www.glancyhypnosis.com

Patrick Glancy, CI, BCH
www.salemhypnosissolutions.com

Edited by - patrickg on 08/02/2008 09:34:45 AM
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