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petveedub

2 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2006 :  8:26:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I would like to be able to hypnotise myself, and this site along with a few others have been great informational tools. I was wondering if I could get some opinions on effective self hypnosis aides so that I don't have to go by marketing hype alone. My goal for the aide is not weight loss, self confidence, etc. It is to put myself into the proper state to use suggestions effectively, and maybe to incorporate a trigger.

Any input would be greatly appreciated,

Billy Miles
I am also considering a one on one, but I am really more of a self starter so I would prefer to do it on my own (I know using an aide isn't technically on my own) . Input on this would be appreciated also.

I live in San Antonio, TX, and referrals are welcome.

anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2006 :  2:55:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes there are machines available to assist you into a desired state, which I have never used, but which are used by a chain group for this purpose. Personally I find them a disgusting excuse not to put in the effort required to be good, but that is a personal belief, and should not deter you from using one. No idea were you will find them except that they are advertised online if you know were to look, or are willing to put in the time to search.
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petveedub

2 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2006 :  5:37:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
By aide, I am only referring to audio aides (tapes, cd's, etc., that would be recommended by the knowledgable members of this forum). I would personally prefer to teach myself, but without a comparable reference I don't know where I am at. I do relax to a level that for me is quite relaxed, but I am extremely detail oriented. Not quite obsessive compulsive, but maybe close. This hinders me a bit, in the fact that I can't stop assessing my state while I relax.

I get to a point where I am as relaxed as I can get myself. Then the next state I am aware of (and the awareness immediately causes my exit from this state), is the point at which I am seeing what I think are Hypnagogic images. There isn't an in between, where I am in a deeper state, and at the same time able to give myself suggestions.

So I think an audio guide would possibly help, by suggesting that I allow myself to relax further than I can on my own.

Any help would be great, thanks,

Billy Miles

Any suggestions on approaching this in a different way would be welcome.
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2006 :  12:10:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First of all, the "knowledgeable" members of this board, are so because they used proper methods of learning, and know that short cuts are not only inadvisable, but in some cases dangerous.... Nobody in their right mind would attempt to teach via the internet, and suggesting MP3s as the route to go would indicate we believe that these methods replace proper training by a skilled practitioner. The fact that you equate "relaxation" to hypnosis is a sign that you are already walking the wrong path, and have little understanding of the basics. Do as you wish, but if you wouldn't let a self trained surgeon remove your tonsils, why would you be prepared to risk damage to your mind by self learning and experimentation?
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HypnoDoc

USA
365 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2006 :  7:53:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit HypnoDoc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Feel free to look over this HOL self-hypnosis audio program. I think you will find it easy and affordable. It offers a good basic introduction to self-hypnosis using hypnosis relaxation techniques.

http://hypnosisonline.com/selfhypnosis.asp

Good luck.

HypnoDoc

"Relax, Listen and ______ with Hypnosis" Audio Series.
(MP3 Instant Download, CD, and Cassettes)
250 Scripts for Hypnosis Professionals
(All the scripts you may ever need for your practice)
quote:
"Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind." Rudyard Kipling.
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imagine-now

17 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2006 :  06:05:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anthony, the fact that you earlier suggest that machines you haven't used could help yet audio recordings cannot is, well..."interesting". The fact is, recordings are just a medium and can in fact help a great deal in the learning process and have helped and continue to help many. The only reason they don't help you is that you believe that to be the case. It depends on who has made the audio recording, who is using it, and for what issue. Anthony, you could stand to learn a great deal from just the audio portion Gerald Kine's videos for example. And by the way, if you pay closer attention, the poster didn't "equate" hypnosis with relaxation. Hypnosis can indeed be thought of as a form of deep relaxation, heightened awareness, and focus so he is not at all on the "wrong" path.

Audio recordings are not meant to be a replacement for one-on-one instruction. Since ALL learning is ultimately self-learning, recordings can indeed be an effective substitute and/or supplement.

People have different learning styles. Some people don't yet have the ability to learn well from audios (or whatever medium) while others can. Again, nothing "replaces" personal instruction, just as personal instruction doesn't replace the fact that you should be well-read in your field. Now for hypnosis as with most things, the biggest factor in learning is how regularly it is *practiced* well--that is where the *real* learning takes place. You can do a Google search for many sites that lay out steps for using self hypnosis effectively--if someone practices those steps regularly and builds the muscle, guess what--it works! While *mastering* anything will take time, learning hypnosis is not "brain surgery" as you would suggest...in fact it's VERY easy (especially self hypnosis). In all honesty, it's one of the easiest things I've ever learned. Since we all naturally have gone into various states of trance all of our lives, self hypnosis is just a way to use this more effectively. For hypnotizing yourself or others, you can't really do any harm unless you are trying to and really know what you're doing--if you or someone doesn't like a suggestion it will be rejected. And if you are guiding someone else in hypnosis you'll have some uncomfortable explaining to do if you were trying to do something unethical. You will hear the same thing from people like the late Milton Erickson (audio recordings and books), Gerald Kein, Mark Cunningham, etc. etc. Again, self hypnosis is far from the level of learning brain surgery--that's an absurd analogy. If a person is motivated, there is nothing significant that can be learned about self hypnosis they can't learn through practice, reading, audios, and/or videos with time. If there is, then name it and I'll explain to you how it can also be learned another way as well.

petveedub,
Don't buy into any scare tactics by people claiming you are risking doing harm to your mind etc. Quite honestly, unless they simply just don't know what they are talking about (easily forgiven), I find the ethics of someone suggesting such a thing to be questionable at best--let alone suggesting that to someone who is already describing themselves as being close to "obsessive compulsive". This shows this person is just wanting to say whatever it is they want to say and isn't really listening and paying attention to what *you* are saying--so whether the person is being incompetent or unethical, please ignore suggestions of that nature as I'm sure you already have. All the suggesting of such artificial fears does is promote the only thing that could do someone harm with self hypnosis--the *believing* that they can do themselves harm! Whatever their motives are, the motives won't be what they claim them to be that's for sure.

For a really good free general guided induction/positive suggestions, check out the free one offered by the hypnotist Paul McKenna at http://www.paulmckenna.com/ that goes along with his book "Change Your Life In Seven Days". The direct link is http://www.paulmckenna.com/download.php If you like it, I suggest purchasing the book...it's very affordable.

From personal experience, being able to go into trance/theta state/somnambulism is like a muscle that grows stronger with exercise. You will actually be more likely to get more out of a personal session with a hypnotist if you already have practiced this ability. Here's a good article about the "Light Switch" technique I personally use http://www.omnihypnosis.com/litswth.htm This article is geared toward teaching self hypnosis with an excellent "trigger" to others, but it's worth reading to get an idea of what you can do.

Somnambulistic trance feels very good so I guess if I would have one minor caution, avoid spending too much time getting getting lost in the experience for its own sake like a drug. Be results oriented and be specific about what you want to accomplish and how you'll know when you have. You seem to have no problem with that already.

Hypnodoc's product looks like it would be quite helpful and worth checking out...I will email you with a couple ideas in addition to that since this posting is getting long. Other than that, enjoy!

Edited by - imagine-now on 03/31/2006 07:23:40 AM
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2006 :  1:52:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I suggest you develop the habit of reading with care before replying to posts. At no time did I suggest machines might be of help, just the oposite, I merely responded to the poster who asked about them. As for you instructing me in Self Hypnosis, I have been in practise for thirty eight years, so it would seem to be redundant.
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imagine-now

17 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2006 :  3:05:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
anthony, for your reference as you typed earlier:
"Yes there are machines available to assist you into a desired state, which I have never used, but which are used by a chain group for this purpose."

That's certainly a suggestion that machines "might" be of help. And as the poster himself informed you, he did not specifically ask about "machines". He asked about aids that could help and you brought up machines. Again, I find it odd that you suggest machines might be of help and then say for certain that audios can't. As for your 38 years I respect that and it's ok since we're all still learning too :-) One can have 38 years of experience and one can also have one year of experience 38 times. I hope that your belief that you have nothing further to learn doesn't hint toward the latter. Anyway, my references to you were very secondary to my other points.

If it is true that there are no shortcuts to learning (which is something I agree with), then it is also true that if someone has learned something well by another method, then they didn't take a short cut. The problem is the belief that "there is only one way to learn something". Again, if someone learns to do something effectively, it wasn't a shortcut. Just as you do, different people learn faster using some methods than in other ways. While a personal instructor is certainly the best all other things being equal, that's also a big assumption. One qualified instructor might not be good for someone's learning while another would be. If for example, a person goes to a therapist to learn self hypnosis and is put off by a hypnotists' arrogance, bad smell, noticing that the "Therapist" sign on the door also spells "The Rapist", the fact that the therapist looks like an ex-spouse, or whatever...the client will likely learn much more from an audio recording by a great widely respected hypnotist than that particular therapist.

Whether self hypnosis is effectively explained by a personal instructor, through a book, audio, or a video they all have one necessary common thread essential for success--the need to practice. It's not "tonsil surgery".

If everyone believed there was only one way to do something, there would have been no progress in this field or any other field for that matter.

So again, with motivation, there is nothing of great consequence that can be learned about self hypnosis that you categorically can't learn through consistant practice, reading, audios, and/or videos with time. If there is, then please name it and teach us all something. Otherwise, I or someone else here will explain to you how you can also learn it another way as well. If you continue to avoid answering, I'll drop it and stop posting here. Take care.

Edited by - imagine-now on 03/31/2006 4:00:38 PM
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2006 :  6:56:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How very strange,"only one way to learn will hold back progress eh"? I have no idea who you are or what you know, but there's a serious problem here. The medical profession recognises only one way to learn, as does the dental profession and the lawyers. Amazing that these professions still stick to it without deviating.. Now it is true we are not discussing other professions here, but I bet you would be unwilling to let just anyone take out your tonsils, since you brought up that subject? Funny, tonsils aren't nescessary to life yet you value them more than your mind it seems, something that is indispensible to life. I bet you wouldn't let some self taught amateur lawyer defend you in court, you would demand someone qualified as per proper training and articling.. Now, when it comes to teeth, I suppose it would be OK with you that I hypnotise you and pull your teeth, but then I am properly trained in hypnosis so there would be no pain. On the other hand, I have had no training in dentistry, so I would be forced to decline if you asked. You see, I believe in doing it right first time, and leaning via the best means possible all I need to do a perfect job, and that applies particullarly to hypnosis. I never suffer fools gladly, and only a fool would tamper with their mind, or the mind of another without proper training to support them.
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2006 :  8:38:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
In my opinion, hypnosis is simply a
name for the trance state. In this state, the cognitive processing
of ideas and self-suggtestions work against the development of more profound responses. As the subconscious opens to become more responsive, the activity of the conscious intellectual mind diminishes. You continue to activate your conscious mind by
demanding proof that you are in hypnosis. I have sold many thousands of self-hypnosis tapes and CDs and I have taught self-hypnosis classes to 22,000 people in my career. Go to a professional hypnotherapist who will train you with numerous trance inductions and instructions to your subconscious mind for future response.and will use tests to convince you of your hypnotic response and will teach you how to program your creative subconscious mind for results.
You have accepted a faulty idea that everyone can learn to
hypnotize themselves simply by repeatedly using a cassette or CD. A smaller percentage can and a greater percentage cannot. Your frustration and reluctance to accept answers from experts will remain until you make a new decision., I wish you success in you goals. Gil Boynbe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]
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imagine-now

17 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2006 :  04:17:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Mr. Boyne,

Assuming you're addressing me, can you show me where it is that I "have accepted a faulty idea that *everyone* (my emphasis added) can learn to hypnotize themselves simply by repeating using a cassette or CD." ? I have stated that people have different learning styles--no one method or medium of instruction is good for everyone. For example, I know people who are either far too shy or distrustful of people or embarrassed to be able to learn very much about self hypnosis from a personal session. Nowhere did I suggest that learning such a thing only requires playing a recording over and over.

Aside from that, you have actually perfectly supported exactly what I am saying--that learning self hypnosis from a professional hypnotherapist may be ideal, but it's certainly not the only way. You have acknowledged that "a small percentage can and a greater percentage can't" which means that like me, you also believe that many people can and have indeed learned it in other ways. This is after all, not very controversial. Though we may disagree on what that percentage is which would be pure speculation on our parts, the point is the same. Also since neither of us are in any position to label people that we haven't even met as to which percentage they belong to, I personally hesitate to tell people they can't do something when many others already have (let alone try to install the belief that they can do damage to their minds by learning from a book, audio, or video). I'm not sure what is so controversial about telling people that while learning self-hypnosis personally from a professional hypnotherapist is ideal, if that didn't work out well (like every other profession, not all certified/licensed professionals are equal or even necessarily competent), you can't afford it, don't live near one, uncomfortable about seeing one etc. that there are other ways to effectively learn self hypnosis as well(though text, audios, or videos). Surely we can agree on that, yes?

Perhaps telling a little about my own experience will shed some more light on things. When I was in graduate school, I was struggling financially and while my interest in hypnosis had grown since seeing a stage hypnotist named "Jim Wand" who visited my university (the best $1 I ever spent), it wouldn't have occured to me to hire a hypnotist to teach me self hypnosis as I certainly could not justify the expense (the G.I. bill was helpful but other than that, I had to work to pay for everything else). My girlfriend at the time knew I was interested in the subject and bought a gift certificate for a hypnotherapist whose office was ~45 minutes away. I called the office and spoke to the assistant/receptionist not really knowing what I wanted. She listed things like memory improvement, study habits, smoking, weight loss, etc. and also mentioned self hypnosis. I chose self hypnosis. At the appointment the guy was very polite, gave a decent pre-talk, had impressive credentials etc. but when trying to give me an induction, his style just kind of put me off. Though it's not what I do for a living, I'm a fairly good blues/jazz pianist and I pay attention to sounds a lot...the nasal tonality of his voice combined with the kind of imagery he was using in the style of induction he gave just wasn't working for me (a basic Elman induction would have been better). He was quite inflexible about this and had the "only one way to learn" attitude which I knew to be false since I was studying Instructional Design for one of my degrees. The kinds of words he used would repeatedly break my state because of my associations with the kind of imagery he was using. When he gave up, I asked "Well, is there another approach we can try?" he said "Yes, there are other approaches but I found this one works best so it's the one I use and if if it isn't working for you, then there is too much fear holding you back." That response of his didn't feel right to me but I didn't have expertise about hypnosis at the time than to just accept it since he was the expert. He was fair though and gave me cash for the purchase price of the gift certificate which I spent on my girlfriend.

This did spark my interest about hypnosis though and I purchased the book "Self Hypnosis and Other Mind Expanding Techniques" by Charles Tebbetts, which I still have. This book is excellent . Just as people have different learning styles, we have different teaching styles as well, so while I'm sure I would have had much better results by trying out other hypnotists until I found one that was better at teaching such a thing, I learned very well exactly what I wanted to learn from this book that I paid less than $15 for. Learning self hypnosis so well along with an Anthony Robbins program I also purchased, are two things that I am sure I wouldn't have made it through graduate school without.

I was happy to see that you sell this very book along with other self hypnosis material on your own website.

********************************************
[EDIT]: I have had second thoughts about how I approached sharing my perspective on this. While I stand by what my own experience has been about being able to learn self hypnosis well on my own with the help of good materials, I believe my situation is relatively unique in that regard because of other experiences I had surrounding it. I do believe there is merit to some points I've made, but they are ultimately very secondary because I fully agree with the main point that Gil Boyne and anthony have said--that the ideal and quickest route (by a significant margin) to learning self hypnosis is via an experienced professional. My other thoughts should have been placed in another thread and expressed more respectfully with a little more humility. I regret any distraction away from that main point of agreement that I may have caused. Personal lesson respectfully learned.
******************************************

Edited by - imagine-now on 04/05/2006 2:49:27 PM
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imagine-now

17 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2006 :  06:58:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anthony, with your 38 years of experience I am sure there is much I can learn from you...I must firmly disagree with you about this though since I do have significant expertise regarding the different ways in which people learn, learning states (closely related to hypnosis of course), and related methodologies. You seem to me a bit "competitive" (for lack of a better word at the moment) so I don't expect to get anywhere here..but I'll respond and express a bit of where I'm coming from regardless.
quote:


How very strange,"only one way to learn will hold back progress eh"? I have no idea who you are or what you know, but there's a serious problem here. The medical profession recognises only one way to learn, as does the dental profession and the lawyers. Amazing that these professions still stick to it without deviating..


You seem to be confusing "learning" with the evaluation/testing phase of the process. The schools of the professions you mentioned are changing their teaching methods constantly. In fact, my brother who is currently attending law school is regularly required to purchase lecture and actual courtroom videos, audios, software, and books to learn from outside of the classroom (where most learning time is spent). Additionally, the way of teaching changes depending on who is teaching the course, and how the school changes its curriculum for that year depending on new statutes, increased emphasis in one area or another, different schools teaching in different ways with different curriculums, etc. What stays *relatively* constant is the way everyone is evaluated for a license to practice law (e.g. the bar exam). I say relatively constant because the actual contents of the bar exam change as well.

Here is the essence of any good model for developing instruction in which the desired outcome is known:

1.Where are we going? (analysis-learning environment, learners/learning styles, the learning task)
2.How will we get there? (strategy development - determine organizational strategies, delivery method/medium, management strategies)
3.How will we know when we've arrived? (evaluation/testing-formative evaluation, revising instruction when necessary)

This is obviously just a basic high level model and common sense. It's amazing how many tutorials etc. lose focus and if they even have evaluation, don't even *really* test for what they say they are teaching though. One example I've noticed recently is a software called "eyeQ" which supposedly teaches speed reading. However it presumes to "measure" reading comprehension using *only* a little multiple choice test. Such a test format is very poor at evaluating good reading comprehension (the ability to summarize the story and converse intelligently about it, its deeper meanings, how it relates to current events, etc.). What such a test is *really* measuring is the ability to skim for main facts. This isn't a bad skill to have but the problem is that people come away with a false belief that they've comprehended the deep structure (meaning) when they may not have. Anyway, sorry for the tangent--the point is that there is a lot of room to move around within that basic structure above and that while there may be an ideal strategy for the "typical" learner, a way of learning is "right" if it works (meets the standards). There can therefore be many strategies for teaching and learning the same thing that achieves the desired outcome as long as the evaluation/self evaluation has enough thought put into it. Notice that effective hypnosis fits into the above basic model very nicely.


quote:

Now it is true we are not discussing other professions here, but I bet you would be unwilling to let just anyone take out your tonsils, since you brought up that subject?


Actually, if you will scroll up you will see that you are the one that introduced that subject, not I. I was trying to be helpful by going along with your metaphor. Refer to the following sentence from your second posting above (before I even posted here) "Do as you wish, but if you wouldn't let a self trained surgeon remove your tonsils, why would you be prepared to risk damage to your mind by self learning and experimentation?"

quote:

Funny, tonsils aren't nescessary to life yet you value them more than your mind it seems, something that is indispensible to life.



Again, since I was just using the tonsil metaphor that you introduced as I showed you above, you are amusingly talking about the quality of your own metaphor, not mine. I didn't think the metaphor was very illustrative either so we agree on that. Ironically you just provided an additional reason why it's not a good one than the ones I was thinking of. Thank you! :-)

quote:

I bet you wouldn't let some self taught amateur lawyer defend you in court, you would demand someone qualified as per proper training and articling..


You are indulging in a logical fallacy here...you are trying to equate "self taught" with "amateur" which is way off. Firstly, no one can do the work of your learning for you so in a sense all learning is self taught in one way or another--this isn't very controversial. Within that context there are various options of course which is what we're talking about. That aside, any lawyer who only allows himself to learn when someone is reading to him in front of a classroom #1 Won't even pass the bar exam #2 Even if he cheats on the bar exam, graduating from law school is only the very beginning of the amount of consistant self education that must take place in order to be a good attorney, #3 If your attorney is not largely self taught, you better fire him quick unless you've got a stake in losing.

quote:

Now, when it comes to teeth, I suppose it would be OK with you that I hypnotise you and pull your teeth, but then I am properly trained in hypnosis so there would be no pain. On the other hand, I have had no training in dentistry, so I would be forced to decline if you asked.



I don't have a problem instantly going into somnambulism for pain control (I learned very well with the assistance of a book and a video actually), but you had no way of knowing that of course so I'll respond to your hypothetical. Quite honestly, if you could demonstrate your competence in dentistry by meeting the standards for licensing, a significant history of great results, happy patients, no complaints, and a better record of results than other dentists which you thought had more "proper" training, I would consdier whatever training you had to be more than "proper" no matter how you learned. But since you yourself claim to have no such dental experience, not only would you refuse to pull my teeth if I asked, it wouldn't occur to me to ask you in the first place.

Most of my hypnosis training so far has been with Gerald Kein (largely Dave Elman based) so if you've learned a vastly different approach, I'm sure your style works great for certain kinds of people. I'm very results oriented and I have seen and observed many people get excellent results through different kinds of learning and different methods of personal instruction. Where you and I will fully agree is that some mediums for teaching certain things are very poor choices (e.g. an audio recording demonstrating the form of a good golf swing!). I just personally have observed that while personal instruction is ideal, many people (not all) can learn self hypnosis quite well with the aid of a quality video, audio, or even a book from the best teachers. I don't see that as very controversial, and you haven't answered my question to give any specific reason why it should be (which I am open to), but we can still agree to disagree anyway.

quote:

You see, I believe in doing it right first time, and leaning via the best means possible all I need to do a perfect job, and that applies particullarly to hypnosis.



On that we can agree. I just happen to believe that what is "right" need not be equated with "ideal". What is right is what works well and gets the desired *results*. It's common for people to be biased towards people learning exactly the way they learned things because that is what is familiar to them, but that doesn't mean other methods are "wrong" as long as they work for some people as well. ...and for many people, the only way to learn from the best is via a book, audio, and/or video. Aside from that though, I fully agree with what you said above.

quote:

I never suffer fools gladly, and only a fool would tamper with their mind, or the mind of another without proper training to support them.



So you're calling Milton Erickson (and all the others who did such tampering with themselves before they had "proper training") a fool? There seems to be a lot of fear behind this belief. It's important to "tamper with your mind" whether you know anything about hypnosis or not. Learning IS tampering with your mind and learning "properly" from good sources is not always dependent upon live instruction from another. Just as genius offers little protection against being dead wrong, live instruction does not have a monopoly on truth. Otherwise, all the people you look up to as recognized experts in this field (or any other) would all agree with each other about such things, which they obviously don't. And we wouldn't want it any other way. :-)

"The best mind altering drug is the truth" --Lily Tomlin

P.S. You still haven't answered the question, but I'm ok with that. Cheers

Edited by - imagine-now on 04/02/2006 07:21:42 AM
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2006 :  3:41:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do it any way you wish, it is you who either benifit or suffer not I. I do however take exception to your sugggestion that I or anyone else is attempting to instil fear in anyone in order to make a profit, or otherwise benifit. Those of us who are retired have no territory to defend, and no benifit to reap from anything we say here, and I am going to say this just one time, and that is it. I am not so stupid as to assume that somebody, at some time, didn't have to take chances and experiment beyond their knowledge in order that we are were we are today. I am saying, that anyone who fails to learn from what has gone before is a fool. I am saying that book learning is never as good as one on one, and that is fact which I doubt you will challenge. To tell someone to stumble along doing it their way, or depending on an understanding of what they read instead of getting expert help is foolish. You it seems did NOT get such help, and that is sad, but in no way gives you the right to set someone else off on the wrong track. You used the services of an idiot it would seem.
Self hypnosis can be taught in about half an hour, but using it effectively takes longer even for just one problem, and sadly, far too many don;t understand the difference. Now personally, I couldn't care less how anyone chooses to learn, but over the years, I do note that a large number of persons are too bloody cheap to pay for proper help, and offering them a caution does indeed seem to be friendly, not alarmist. Further, I am tired of idiots posting here saying that hypnosis doesn't work, and then finding that they are so called self taught, or were worked on by self taught who know so little as to be dangerous. THIS IS NOT HYPNSOSIS......
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imagine-now

17 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2006 :  10:46:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Anthony, again, pointing out that there are alternative ways of learning something if they're not in a position yet for good personal instruction is far from pointing them to a wrong path. On the contrary, it's dangerous not to point that out--otherwise people give up too easily and believe things like "hypnosis doesn't work" if they don't see there are other alternatives. I would have never sought personal instruction again were it not for the books, audios, and videos I learned from.

Like 1on1 training, you get out of it what you put into it. Print, audios, videos, software aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Such materials are often the most direct way to learn from those masters in the field that are now deceased or that we don't have access to. Humanity would be foolish not to utilize them to learn from previous generations. They all have their place and limiting ourselves to only one source for learning is just that--severely limiting ourselves.

I didn't suggest any possible reasons for the instiling of fear/caution by the way....it didn't occur to me that it might be done for profit or defending territory. While I don't see the need for that sort of caution, I could have handled that disagreement much better in a more respectful manner Anthony and I do sincerely apologize for that. I see that your intentions are friendly and not alarmist.

When you say "I am saying that book learning is never as good as one on one, and that is fact which I doubt you will challenge. " , I would not challenge it if you just didn't have the word "never" in there hehe. If a church going person never reads the Bible and only gets the preacher's model of the world, preferences, loves, hatreds, prejudices, deletions, interpretations of the Bible then they're ignorant about their own religion. What their preacher says may be a valuable perspective but it's not the same thing as reading the source for themselves. You can usually get much more out of personal instruction if you've already read more in depth books/videos on the subject, particularly from the same sources the instructor is drawing from.

You made me grin when you mentioned the people ranting obout hypnosis not working--I know just what you mean. These same people will be completely tranced out and fully associated during a good movie (the best way to enjoy a movie of course), have total faith when a psychiatrist tells them they need a pill to feel better (before even being asked about nutrition/exercise level, beliefs etc.) or total materialistic brand slaves due to effective hypnotic television advertising.

Anyway, thank you for this discussion and appreciate your time. I think it's good to talk about these things and while we might disagree on several distinctions, I can tell that we agree about a lot of more important fundamental issues most of which haven't been spoken.

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[EDIT]: I have had second thoughts about how I approached sharing my perspective on this. While I stand by what my own experience has been about being able to learn self hypnosis well on my own with the help of good materials, I believe my situation is relatively unique in that regard because of other experiences I had surrounding it. I do believe there is merit to some points I've made, but they are ultimately very secondary because I fully agree with the main point that Gil Boyne and anthony have said--that the ideal and quickest route (by a significant margin) to learning self hypnosis is via an experienced professional. My other thoughts should have been placed in another thread and expressed more respectfully with a little more humility. I regret any distraction away from that main point of agreement that I may have caused. Personal lesson respectfully learned.
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Edited by - imagine-now on 04/05/2006 2:50:14 PM
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dramaguy

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2006 :  9:24:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey group I am new to this group! I assume most of you folks have been around here awhile.Let me say from my observation that it seems EVERYONE has alot to offer these forums but wasting time and space bickering is not helping get and retain new people. Just my two cents please don't take offense I am glad I can read all the helpfull info but..............lets get along folks! Have a great day!
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