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jordancorey

8 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2006 :  3:45:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Everyone, I have just bought Paul Mckenna's total confidence book with a CD that goes with it. I listen to it every night but I was wondering if it will have any effect if I listen to it at work while I am on my lunch break? I listen to it on my mp3 player while I am eating. If it has any effect this way, do I have to listen to the words or can I just let it play in my ears without really listen to it.
Thanks in advance for your help
Jordancorey.

***Jordancorey***

jordancorey

8 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2006 :  3:38:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I take it that no one knows the answer to this question as no one as anwered it.

I want to know if it is like listen to a song on the radio and not really taking any notice of it but you suddenly start to sing it and you seem to know all the word.

Jordancorey


***Jordancorey***
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HypnoDoc

USA
365 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2006 :  9:01:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit HypnoDoc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Almost all audio programs come with some kind of a "prescription" - "Listen once a day for 20 days" etc. You should follow what the producer of the program recommends.

In most cases you are given the suggesion to "close yours eyes and relax" - this is not that easy to do while you eat your lunch.

Hope this helps.

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Matrixman

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2006 :  04:41:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Matrixman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi I have been listening to audio, self help stuff, for years, it is best to listen to your m3p, first thing in the morning and last thing at night, for best results, yet as its loadid with possitive suggestions, than, its ok to listen to it at lunch time. Paul Mckenna does a grate job with he's audio products, just remember never ever, listen to hypnosis type things in the car. and ur be fine. i would suggest no more then two listening sessions a day. or your brain will pick up on the suggestions, on a more conscious level, and thats not the point.

hope that was helpful.

If it has consciousness it's already in a trance.
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UnAdept

25 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2006 :  04:20:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't imagine that hypnotic-script recordings have any effect at all unless one actually follows the instructions and decends into the hypnotic state...

Well, I'll take that back: according to the Meer Exposure effect, the more we precieve an object or idea, the more familiar it is, and thus the more pleasing it is - very well understood phenomenon.

However, the point of a hypnotic recording is that it places us in a state in which we are uniquely prone to suggestions - if you don't enter that state, then there should be no more effect then having a co-worker repeat, over and over again, "I will be productive, laziness is theft from the company," or whatever.

So, my response would be that if you are actually entering a hypnotic state on your lunch break, then yes, it will have an effect, but because you do not, it will not.

- Hal

P.S. It's not clear whether this audio book is an actual hypnotic recording. Could you clairify?
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2006 :  2:52:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Since listening to a CD or to am mp3, is NOT hypnosis the rules will not be the same. Listen to it, or let it play without listening and it makes no difference, the subconcious will absorb what is offered eventually. Much better than listening to garbage, or to negative stuff. Now, if this tape were to be one made for you by your therapist as an adjunct to therapy, that would be a different matter. There you have intent to produce a trance state, and should only listen to it when doing nothing else. All to often, people get the facts mixed, and think they are using hypnotic techniques when in fact they are just using well known motivational techniques which require no trance. There is a big difference as to the effects that can be expected, and the speed of those effects.
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Matrixman

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  04:12:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit Matrixman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
All language is hypnosis, all language holds, within it suggestions, presuppositions, direct, and or indirect, ways of creating a way with in which to, communicate with our mind-body, in a very general way, to have people to except our way of thinking, in and of it’s self is not the right way and or the wrong way, it’s just “a” way based on our understandings, “ your map is your map” beliefs and values, generally people with the strongest personality, seem to have the most influence over any given topic, yet that’s not always the case as one who as more flexibility in his/her language skills, will have more scope in being able to guide the situation to a win/win out come.

So even though Anthony is right is right in what he says, Hypnosis is language, and all language is hypnosis, whether it be on cd, mp3, TV, radio, bill boards, and the internet, yet that’s also just one way of looking at it.

He’s a very simple test, try and I mean try really hard not to think, don’t think, about what you might be asking, well I will tell you, in a few words, yet I don’t want you to think in any way shape or form about, an orange donkey, did you manage to not think? Everything what I have said is lies, there is no hypnosis, oops am I lying again.

It’s what you believe and value that matters, nothing else. You’re the director of your own life play. Ok I will stop rambling now.

If it has consciousness it's already in a trance.
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UnAdept

25 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  04:19:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matrixman

All language is hypnosis


Er... No. No, not at all.

All language is suggestion, I'll meet you half way here, but hypnosis refers specifically to the hypnotic mental state itself, a state of deep relaxation and suggestibility induced through a set of instructions supplied by the "hypnotist" (hypnotherapist) and followed by the subject.

- Hal
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Matrixman

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  04:36:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit Matrixman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ps I said "all language is hypnosis", and "all language holds, within it suggestions"

And I guess the medium of the process would be? Lets guess language words, used in a way that allows us to guide our selves or others in to a hypnotic/ trance state. Or do you use a hammer/ a spade to hit some one in to unconsciousness, which also works really well. It uses a bit more effort, and then theirs jail time to consider with that option.

Yet Like I also said, what you say its not, the wrong way, of looking, seeing, feeling, this, it's just "A" way of a set of Possibilities, its not right and its not wrong, its just one other way to consider.

If it has consciousness it's already in a trance.
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UnAdept

25 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  08:24:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Yet Like I also said, what you say its not, the wrong way, of looking, seeing, feeling, this, it's just "A" way of a set of Possibilities, its not right and its not wrong, its just one other way to consider.


See, that's not the approach I take. I am of the opinion that you are, in fact, mistaken in your assertation that "all language is hypnosis"; I consider you to be 'wrong', and I feel the literature backs me up.

Yes, language is important to the hypnotic process, but there is a VAST difference between trying to convince someone of something in a normal state of mind and placing a person in a hypnotic trance and asserting that they will be convinced of something.

Having an argument is not hypnosis, almost by definition.

I don't buy into this quasi-magical, 'we're all stardust' way of thinking.

Once again: the hypnotic state is a distinct pheomenon that - while a form of interpersonal communication - can be differentiated from normal conversation and other means of persuasion.

- Hal
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Matrixman

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  10:16:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit Matrixman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
And in your model of the world, thats just as it is, its not right or wrong in and of it's self, its just is. as with any topic, hypnosis or other wise, there is always, going to be "for" and "agents", one idea, or another, Now i am very new to this hypnosis, stuff, yet in all the 14 years, i have been reading and learning, i have never found, "a" right way, or "the" one way, to do hypnosis, or do define a "state" special and in and of its self, to be classed as the hypnotic state. as we go in and out of many staates, through-out the day, in and of it's self, a state, is a form of hypnosis, yet this you don't have to buy into, as its just, a way, of using what we call hypnosis.

By the very fact your not buying what I have writen, "must mean", that you have bought in to some bodies else, ideas, concepts, values, etc, all created by thoughts, ideas, states, levels of consciousness, an hypnotic based relaity, "yet thats just one way of looking at it, is is not important, in anyway shape or from, as i Guess, you skilled, at what you do.

ps if you think this is an "argument", that being your word, then you have picked the wrong word, only inflexable people argue.

I am sorry for hijacking the base subject, and taking the whole thing on a tangent, as for you Hal, I read what your saying, and I can not disagree, with what you are saying as that's how you see, it to be. and again he who as choice, as more choice, right or wrong i am be, yet I am very good at being, really good at what I do.

I will not reply to anything in still thread, as of now, as its all bol$%^&KS anyway.



If it has consciousness it's already in a trance.
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UnAdept

25 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  10:35:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The arguement was just an example of a form of conversation that's not, in fact, hypnosis.

And, yes, while everybody's entitled to their opinion, I have the scientific method and the bulk of the literature on my side, so I'm on far better footing - this is why science is far better then personal phiolosopy: it's objective and progressive and is a much better predictor then personal experience.

-Hal
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Matrixman

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  11:25:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit Matrixman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok i lied i am going to reply,

which specific literature?
who specifically wrote it?
When specifically was it writen?
Who specically says what is writen is the right way?


"it's objective and progressive and is a much better predictor then personal experience" who says that specifically?

You really can't apply ojective models, the hypnosis, which is 100% subject, and even objective models have been created from someboides subjective processes, as its where all ideas come from, for every book that you can point out that fits your ideas, how many others books etc are out there,that say otherwise, for you to answer that quetion, you would have had to have read every book, in question. and i think you might not have done that.

personal phiolosopy, every model out in the world is based on somebodies personal phiolosopy, and very personal experience, not so? other wise how have there been created? I am not sure but i don't think there is a "models for us" out let in the world other then from, words, ideas, consepts, thoughts, states, levels of consciousness, froms of hypnosis. yet thats me on a tanget again.

and cos i can, I don't buy into this quasi-magical, 'we're all stardust' way of thinking. where did that come from? thats your projection, and only your's.

just in case you would like to see a really cool film see if you can get hold of it "whats the bleep" who made it i am not sure, yet its worth the view. then you can laugh, at the whole quasi-magical idea.

If it has consciousness it's already in a trance.

Edited by - Matrixman on 03/03/2006 11:26:55 AM
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UnAdept

25 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  1:22:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matrixman

which specific literature?
who specifically wrote it?
When specifically was it writen?


I'm at work at the moment - When I get home and have access to my text books I can quote the entire history of scientific inquiry into the hypnotic state if you so desire.

quote:
Who specically says what is writen is the right way?


The process of peer review, by which any person who questions the findings of a study is free to debate and disprove it's findings, if they can produce falsifying data.

quote:
"it's objective and progressive and is a much better predictor then personal experience" who says that specifically?


Um, everybody? They're the characteristics of the scientific method.

quote:
You really can't apply ojective models, the hypnosis, which is 100% subject


Very true, but the RESULTS of hypnosis, and the behavior of a person within the hypnotic state, is objective.

quote:
and even objective models have been created from someboides subjective processes, as its where all ideas come from,


I agree with you completely here.

quote:
personal phiolosopy, every model out in the world is based on somebodies personal phiolosopy, and very personal experience, not so? other wise how have there been created? I am not sure but i don't think there is a "models for us" out let in the world other then from, words, ideas, consepts, thoughts, states, levels of consciousness, froms of hypnosis. yet thats me on a tanget again.


Once again, I could not agree with you more. To be a scientist, one must first be a philosopher.

quote:
and cos i can, I don't buy into this quasi-magical, 'we're all stardust' way of thinking. where did that come from? thats your projection, and only your's.


I have a problem with people taking a legitimate phenomenon and generalizing it; People behave and react differnetly when within the hypnotic state then without - that alone is robust evidence that the hypnotic state is real, and functions differently then simple discussion.

What I don't believe you realize is that by saying that "all language is hypnosis", you're claiming that the hypnotic state is not an altered state of consciousness, which in fact it is.

Consider, if you will, that a discussion generally relies on valid arguments, reasoning to change a subjects mind - hypnosis does not, it makes use solely of attribution, there is no need to justify anything.

quote:
just in case you would like to see a really cool film see if you can get hold of it "whats the bleep" who made it i am not sure, yet its worth the view. then you can laugh, at the whole quasi-magical idea.



It's been suggested to me, and described - I have no problem with the fact that we can alter the content of our minds through repetition. This is, once again, the Meer Exposure effect. Hypnosis, however, results in a much more immediate and potent transformation.

- Hal

Edited by - UnAdept on 03/03/2006 1:23:26 PM
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Matrixman

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  2:42:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit Matrixman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hal

I have no doubt, that your text books will verify, what your saying, yet it’s just a text book, it does not mean it’s true, plus how old is the book? What other concepts, ideas, thoughts, theories, have been looked into, what else is out there, that you and I have not read, what new ways have come into the world, in the understanding of how our mind body works, in the last 15 years say.

Hal I can see, the logic, and I even get the whole, objective, idea, and it as its place, it’s also only one way of going about understanding, how the hypnotic process works.

Now we could run around with this, for days and days, and I could go and find one of my many boxes of books, and pull out a host of quotes, and other raw data, in and of it’s self, works really well, yet it’s all base on some bodies else’s representations, of the data, that was created at that time, that’s a good thing, as it means we know what happened at that time with that experience, yet it was at that time, that it happened with the people that where involved, at that time.

What is language? Language is a metaphorical symbolic representation that a collective have agree upon, what is a metaphor? Metaphor is a form of language that has been created from the subjective representations of the collective, the collective in question is the human race, fact, that means all experiences, are in them selves, internal process, what is hypnosis an internal process, that is encoded via our five know senses, that in its self, is a subjective process, when we read or hear, something we have, then to read and validate, what he or she means, based and then recoded on our own, filters, which we have encoded, from our beliefs and values, again that it also set at a subjective level, of being. So my dear Hal its all right and its all wrong, if you choice it to be one or the other then it is.

If it has consciousness it's already in a trance.
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  4:57:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mat man, I accept your concept, and would add even more, since I find I can get results without any attempt at trance, and through normal conversation. However, I can do the same think through other senses also, so even saying language is hypnosis leaves something out. I can touch you in a certain manner and get expected results, amplified by my direction in a pre discussion. Hypnosis is pure knowledge I would suggest, and that may leave out something also (G). The more you know, the more you learn that you didn't know, and still learning at seventy seven is fun. Problem is, answering questions such as sparked this thread is getting harder and harder, since I have left the silly stuff way behind, and find it boring. CDs can't possibly be compared to what we do in face to face situations, hence my comments to the original poster. It just aint hypnosis period....
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UnAdept

25 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2006 :  5:45:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, see, all this talk about metaphores and symbols... not really productive

The fact remains that the system of science can and does PREDICT occurances within subjective experiences; so, even though all experiences are, by their very nature, subjective, they must share an objective reality - and objective reality that can be quantified and measured for each person to see within their subjective experience.

quote:
I have no doubt, that your text books will verify, what your saying, yet it’s just a text book, it does not mean it’s true, plus how old is the book? What other concepts, ideas, thoughts, theories, have been looked into, what else is out there, that you and I have not read, what new ways have come into the world, in the understanding of how our mind body works, in the last 15 years say.


Your quite correct, this would be a problem - if science weren't progressive by it's very nature. Peer review means that old ideas are tested and retested and, when found to be flawed, are replaced by new ideas that explain all existing evidence. Further, you can easily look over all past evidence via review articles frequently published in scholarly texts.

Anthony - if it wouldn't be too much trouble, I'd like to hear more about how you are able to get results without placing people into a trace state. Are you using a form of persuasion, or pure assertation? Do you find you get the same degree of response from all people?

- Hal
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